[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I get what you are saying jet.

Can you explain what exactly you mean by



This though? What kind of thread? Like, an actual discussion thread about his voting record for example?

I think maybe, I might just start deleting threads that are not clear about what they are about and have absolutely no thought gone into them too. So that thread would probably be gone. As would the many many threads that literally just have a link to a news story in them and nothing else. Like, if you want to discuss that news story, discuss it? No need to just make a title and post a link with maybe a little quote of what they story says. Add your own actual opinion to it.

You mean like my threads? I usually post articles, but can't say I always agree with them. It's just a discussion starter and usually the articles are better worded than anything I could write. The other reason I think many people don't post too many OP essays in SD is because over half the time they turn into straw mans and character attacks anyway... so some ppl may not bother.

I think deleting ambiguous threads is fine given those are usually bait threads anyway... though a lock I think is better than deleting as long as it's not particularly offensive material.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Maru

You mean like my threads? I usually post articles, but can't say I always agree with them. It's just a discussion starter and usually the articles are better worded than anything I could write. The other reason I think many people don't post too many OP essays in SD is because over half the time they turn into straw mans and character attacks anyway... so some ppl may not bother.

I think deleting ambiguous threads is fine given those are usually bait threads anyway... though a lock I think is better than deleting as long as it's not particularly offensive material.

It does not need to be an essay. I cant say I have ever notice your thread being nothing but a link? I think you always actually add something to the OP? Maybe not

I know sometimes its a discussion starter, but even a starter should have something besides...'discuss' surely? Whoever is making the thread MUST have an opinion on it one way or the other? IDK..I know anything I make threads about, I always have an opinion on and want to discuss that. Maybe others are different. have made a poll anyway about all of this, where hopefully I will get a lot of opinions

[jaxie]

Re Vicky, Maru and Livia's conversation. My dad was a union man before his disablement and I grew up on a staunch socialist household. I have voted Labour in the past but was turned off them at different times by the loony left of the past, the behaviour of Tony Blair and the rise of Corbyn. For a number of years I was Lib Dem until they sold out the students and I don't like their stance over Brexit. I'd never vote for them again I don't think. I am left with no one really to vote for. I'm centreish politically and I don't think the right is all bad. What I definitely don't support is violence against particular MPs whoever they are.

Re Vicky's suggestion about deleting threads like that Mogg one I'd support that though I do sometimes just post an article with a sentence or two on something I find interesting to give others a chance to read it so it sounds like most threads I start would be gone!

BTW what happened to the zebras thread!

What Jet said for me too really. Our complaint/discussion was about that particular Mogg thread and our posts in it.

[Vicky.]

Zebra thread is in general chat

OK jaxie have just had a look through your most recent started threads in this section and those are all fine from what I can see, as you do not just post the link and 'discuss' or just the link, you do actually say what you think about it. I don't mean everyone needs to do essays when starting threads, even though thats usually my style

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It does not need to be an essay. I cant say I have ever notice your thread being nothing but a link? I think you always actually add something to the OP? Maybe not

It depends, sometimes it's just because of the {& News} filter portion of the sub... like making others aware of something that they didn't know about before, etc

I know sometimes its a discussion starter, but even a starter should have something besides...'discuss' surely? Whoever is making the thread MUST have an opinion on it one way or the other? IDK..I know anything I make threads about, I always have an opinion on and want to discuss that. Maybe others are different. have made a poll anyway about all of this, where hopefully I will get a lot of opinions

I understand what you're saying. If a rule is put forth, I think I can manage a simple post

[Toy Soldier]

I hate one line replies.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I hate one line replies.

Those scumbag moderators must've edited out the rest of your post. Where are they?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

Those scumbag moderators must've edited out the rest of your post. Where are they?

Probably on YouTube watching Corbyn videos and whatnot!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I hate one line replies.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I hate one line replies.

what if the one liner covers everything the person wants to say though

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what if the one liner covers everything the person wants to say though

.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what if the one liner covers everything the person wants to say though

That never happens.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I hate one line replies.

Brevity of the soul of wit, you know.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That never happens.

I can be very succinct! I guess how people post may reflect real life personalties as well, like some people can get to the nub of the issue quickly, while others need to go all round the houses and fill in background

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I can be very succinct! I guess how people post may reflect real life personalties as well, like some people can get to the nub of the issue quickly, while others need to go all round the houses and fill in background

No.

[jet]

Vicky, I hope you don't mind me posting your closing post in the thread you made to try to sort things out but I haven't been well today and slept a lot and have just resurfaced feeling somewhat better

I am closing my own thread as its now quite clear that no matter what we do, we will be in the wrong. I did think that maybe we could sort something out, but it is clear that this is not possible tbh. I don't know what I was thinking making this thread and being optimistic about it all. Also closing as I can see the direction this is now going to go, in exactly the same direction as most other threads.

Moderating is always going to be subjective. And context is important also so no 'set rules' would really work.

So I guess, I will be doing the same as usual, but I may also be reminding people that they need to be ontopic, and also intervening/deleting when appropriate. This will be my last attempt to sort out this section, and tbh, I am sure it won't work either but it has to be tried. If people do feel victimized, so be it. Its the nature of the job really isn't it..

So yeah, closed as its already going the same way as usual, tbh.

People may PM me if they disagree with this being closed, but I am sure most can see exactly why it was.

I really appreciate your effort and how you opened a thread with helpful suggestions and given everyone a voice and I'm sure most here feel the same.
I guess moderating any forum with people from all walks of life and opinions is a thankless and frustrating job most of the time. You couldn't pay me a handsome salary to do it!
So I'm thinking how do you moderate all sorts of people with all different opinions and experiences and emotions and backgrounds, and the answer is 'with great difficulty' so don't think your efforts have been in vain at all - it was inevitable that there is going to be all those voices wanting to be heard according to their their own views and perspectives.

And I too have my own view, of course, don't we all! and I don't really think the SD forum is that bad, really. I have little to complain about, apart from my and others opinions of the unfairness in the Ree Moggs thread which I think is a good example of something to look at and learn from, given the hassle it has caused.....

And another thing for me is people saying things like they do to Brillo (I hope you don't mind me referencing you here Brillo) like 'you are racist!' instead of 'your opinion sounds racist' as just an example. The first is stating a fixed opinion in the accusers mind, while the second is opening it up for further debate, explanation and clarification....and that goes for any terms people feel are derogatory - whether it be snowflake or sexist or fascist or whatever. It's little things like that that make a difference... Those things have caused so many problems here and are quite easy to fix if it is said 'it sounds like...can you explain further, rather than 'this is what you are'!

IMO only, apart from the above, and the big no - no of people getting awfully personal with each other, I'd let people go at it. Nobody can tame human beings with all their complexities or set ways and its futile to try. Like Ammi said, there can be young uns here with their own way of saying things or old hands with theirs. Let them hash it out among themselves unless it gets personal or someone is being uncomfortably targeted.

Only my probably simplistic take on it, but on the whole, I think the mods do a great job most of the time, suffering in silence! and it it is only when something in particular comes up that highlights a particular dissatisfaction, like that infamous Ree Moggs thread, do things need to be looked at and modified in light of that, just for future fairness and even -handedness.

So thanks in particular to Vicky, for making such a huge effort, and upwards and onward to SD and whatever it brings in the future - its never boring anyway, that's for sure!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jet

And another thing for me is people saying things like they do to Brillo (I hope you don't mind me referencing you here Brillo) like 'you are racist!' instead of 'your opinion sounds racist' as just an example. The first is stating a fixed opinion in the accusers mind, while the second is opening it up for further debate, explanation and clarification....and that goes for any terms people feel are derogatory - whether it be snowflake or sexist or fascist or whatever. It's little things like that that make a difference... Those things have caused so many problems here and are quite easy to fix if it is said 'it sounds like...can you explain further, rather than 'this is what you are'!

Yeah this part is really important. I have to note though that it does not only happen to brillo, it happens to a few members.

I do agree that instead of 'you are racist' it should be 'this post is racist and here is the reason why' or 'you are coming across quite racist, and here is why'. As yelling racist helps nothing at all, and definitely does not add to the debate. Of coutrse if you find a post racist, call it out and explain. But just a single you are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc is a bit pointless.

I think a lot of the problems here at the moment cannot really be fixed by mods at all. They need to be fixed by members. Like, think about what you are posting, will the person take offence at the wording? I know sometimes people MEAN to cause offence but thats not very productive really. At times the person will take offence whatever, but you can still post it, aslong as its actually productive, if that makes sense.

I honestly think part of the problem is the lack of members posting in here, so its the same members going at each other all of the time and frustrating each other, then going into the next thread and it starts all over and then members end up with grudges against others, which carries on and on. Not sure if that can be sorted though, as its quite normal for a small group who know each other and each others opinions pretty well.

Glad you are feeling better too. And it seems, you have had a sex change, congratulations I used to think you were male, then someone said you were female (I thought it was you that said this actually) but I still read your posts as..male, you type very male. And now I find out you are actually male again

[Vicky.]

Also, I meant to ask earlier, brllo do you want the offtopic stuff in here deleted, or is it ok to leave it? Whichever is fine, but let me know if you want it gone so it can all get back ontopic

[jaxie]

I'm not going to quote and clog the thread with more text but that was a great post Jet.

I also appreciate your efforts Vicky and your fairness over the thread we complained about. You did at least seem to understand our point over that particular thread and the deleted posts.

It's a shame that the thread you started had to closed, I thought the principle was very progressive of you.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I'm not going to quote and clog the thread with more text but that was a great post Jet.

I also appreciate your efforts Vicky and your fairness over the thread we complained about. You did at least seem to understand our point over that particular thread and the deleted posts.

It's a shame that the thread you started had to closed, I thought the principle was very progressive of you.

Oh yeah, I definitely did get your point. I could see it from both sides though, which was a bit of a problem. I had splinters in my arse from the fencesitting, tbh

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh yeah, I definitely did get your point. I could see it from both sides though, which was a bit of a problem. I had splinters in my arse from the fencesitting, tbh

Well I will take fence sitting over just siding with the other mod because it's easy. It makes me respect you that you at least considered our pov. .

It is a shame about the closed thread because it felt the penny might have dropped for at least one or two people about accusation language. But I get why you closed it with the argument breaking out towards the end. I think accusation language causes a lot of the probs. Like labelling people and such.

[Ammi]

..I don’t know whether you would consider re-opening the ‘take 2’ thread again, Vicky...I know you felt that it was ‘descending’, but I think some descension is necessary as well, actually quite vital, especially in the early stages of trying to ‘fix’....it’s a bit like a broken marriage, or a marriage that’s having difficulties and trying to work things out as a couple, so that they can stay together because they both want the same with that, neither wants to part ways.....anyways, a lot of ‘negatives’ and things that went wrong or are going wrong have to be addressed first before that ‘building’ can happen...and I do think there was still much progression and positive in the thread, with maybe just a few ‘descensions’...descending is going to be my word of the day.....also I think I might have said in the thread which is slightly happening here...unless it just all became impossible in it’s being negative, then the closing and cutting off as it were of closed threads...doesn’t really solve because what essentially is being said will still be felt so can be counter productive in the frustrations it causes...so the spilling over into other threads and thread after thread, would seem inevitable...if we’re seeking to ‘fix’ as I think we all are, then there has to be a ‘thrashing out’ period of the good and the bad and maybe only think of ‘closing’ if it all became too ‘ugly’...which doesn’t seem to be happening anyway...anyways, I seem to have missed a lot while not here so I probably wouldn’t participate much myself, because I don’t think I’m personally being very productive in my contribution...but it feels it’s something that others feel a definite need for, for their voices/all voices to be heard..?...

[Vicky.]

Yeah..it was descending but I also kind of felt, we are never going to come to any kind of consensus realistically. Might be worth having a no holds barred 'get it all off your chest' thread, but I don't think james would go for that somehow

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah..it was descending but I also kind of felt, we are never going to come to any kind of consensus realistically. Might be worth having a no holds barred 'get it all off your chest' thread, but I don't think james would go for that somehow

I hope this happens cuz I got words for all y'all.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah..it was descending but I also kind of felt, we are never going to come to any kind of consensus realistically. Might be worth having a no holds barred 'get it all off your chest' thread, but I don't think james would go for that somehow

I thought we kind of did that in another thread not that long ago.

A time out room for Dezzy and Brillo?