[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think apologist attitudes do nothing to make a case for excusing people in positions of power and influence. We had been through periods of great reform, as well as been aided during the great war by many nations with the promise of further autonomy, rights and respect...none of which were forthcoming after in fact the attitudinal shift became even more regressive with regard to supremacy.

We have the right to question our history, and how our supposedly 'civilised' establishment was constructed and governed. To simply sigh and say 'oh well, that's how it was' is a cop out .. it was then and it is today.

History is just the same, and so forever will be we are just as accepting of abuses in foreign lands today as we were then as long as they're dressed up as us pilgrims aiding the savages... nothing changes.

He was a supremacist.. He was not for rights or equality or anything remotely progressive in fact he was basically a eugenicist no wonder he is so popular recently.

'After the second world war, the Foreign Office forcibly repatriated 1,362 Chinese sailors who had settled in Liverpool after serving in the Merchant Navy. Government records don't mention their families but news reports indicate that at least 150 were married to British women and that between them they had up to 450 children.'

Why force feed kids that this was a 'great man' from another era, he wasn't he was one of the most powerful men in the world who had the chance to do the right thing and in the main he simply chose not to.. I see no reason to celebrate him or his beliefs.

History is not a stunt, those who have scratched beneath foundation GCSE history will be aware he was not how he is marketed in this 'cafe', kindly they choose to educate the clientele and for some reason they are happy to remain ignorant, which as we know is how the establishment prefer the great unwashed.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...social-history

Okay, calm down, you aren't a scholar of the subject just because you've done a google search on it after watching the video so don't look down at me or anyone else just because you think that you are.

Who said we don't have the right to question our history? Can you point that out to me? Go no, quote it for me. I'll wait. These entitled white people looking to be offended on anothers' behalf are entitled to their offense and everyone is entitled to question history but this isn't about that, it's about protesting the name of a cafe which is utterly pointless and does nothing to solve racial issues that we phase today.

Nothing will ever change regarding Churchill's legacy, for better or worse, people of all colours and creeds will put more focus on the war side of things than his questionable views, if he was alive today and spouting those views I'd be right there shouting 'Get her, Jade!' but he's either ashes or mulch at this point so what is the point of protesting the name of a cafe? What racial issues does this fix? They are entitled to waste their time, I am entitled to call it a waste of time.

Newsflash Kizzy, marketing and history is not the same thing. Che Guevara was problematic as **** but did that stop people from wearing clothes and bags with his face on it? Did the fact that he executed people without due course or even knowing they were guilty stop Cuba from putting his face on their currency? did the fact that he believed in censorship and ideals that are typically more right leaning stop the worship of him as a Left icon? No, because people bought into the image and not the reality.

When you put all the 'great leaders' of history under a microscope, they never come up clean. History remembers the best about these people but rarely the worst. I'm not defending him or being an 'apologist' I just think this protest is a complete waste of energy by a bunch of people that look for stupid reasons to be offended instead of caring about the important issues.

You can't rewrite history, you can only learn from it, if people in today's world hold the attitude that Churchill had then go ahead, protest them but protesting a time period that, if you were born in, you'd probably be raised sharing that mindset is pointless. These people aren't interested in making a difference, they are only interested in being offended and drawing attention to themselves and not the cause. I have no time for posers like this whose efforts are only skin deep.