[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The NHS has been in trouble for awhile sadly, hopefully some MP's will rise through the ranks and sort the NHS out.

what part?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its a cry we are familiar with from those in the Labour Party or on the extreme left

Edits that to include the Green Party, the Liberal Democrats and the SNP.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what part?

All of it!

First they broke the NHS into many parts. They did this in 2012 and confused the surfs by giving them the illusion that 'Trusts' were all about patient choice. Its easier to later dismantle smaller sections than one large part.

Next they started underfunding the now fragmented and partly privatized sections. This ensures the public get angry with the service provider and become resigned to the fact that the NHS can't carry on as it is.

The next thing and something that is an ongoing project at the moment is start charging for certain things like 'out of hours GP surgeries and longer GP appointments. These things have already been proposed.

At the same time they start rolling out health credit https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/patien...about-phb.aspx Again, under the guise of 'choice' and finally, though we aren't there yet, start rolling out health insurance incentives.

[Livia]

The NHS has more spent on it now than at any time in the past; ten times what was spent on it sixty years ago. when 11% of the public services budget spent on it. That figure is now almost 30%. The fact that the population is ageing seems to have come as a bit of a shock to both the government and the NHS. In my opinion, the NHS would be more cost-effective if they managed the money better. It's run like every other public service but if it was run like a business, that might be different. And furthermore, NHS priorities are shot when they're denying cancer treatment but funding breast augmentation, sex changes and IVF, while the world is struggling with the beginning effects of overpopulation.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

All of it!

First they broke the NHS into many parts. They did this in 2012 and confused the surfs by giving them the illusion that 'Trusts' were all about patient choice. Its easier to later dismantle smaller sections than one large part.

Next they started underfunding the now fragmented and partly privatized sections. This ensures the public get angry with the service provider and become resigned to the fact that the NHS can't carry on as it is.

The next thing and something that is an ongoing project at the moment is start charging for certain things like 'out of hours GP surgeries and longer GP appointments. These things have already been proposed.

At the same time they start rolling out health credit https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/patien...about-phb.aspx Again, under the guise of 'choice' and finally, though we aren't there yet, start rolling out health insurance incentives.

So you are saying the the whole of the NHS is on its knees and working as efficiently as it can?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So you are saying the the whole of the NHS is on its knees and working as efficiently as it can?

As a social structure... yes.

[smudgie]

Re the NHS.
Too many people to look after nowadays, we are living too long.
Too many time wasters as well.

[bots]

wake up call, the NHS isn't going to be sorted out because there just isn't enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want.

It may depress some, but the simple reality is that it is due to it's success at prolonging and extending life that it has a problem. If it was on its knees it wouldn't be saving lives, and therefore there would be less demand on it. It's simple economics

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

wake up call, the NHS isn't going to be sorted out because there just isn't enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want.

It may depress some, but the simple reality is that it is due to it's success at prolonging and extending life that it has a problem. If it was on its knees it wouldn't be saving lives, and therefore there would be less demand on it. It's simple economics

None of that is true. If you believe this then sorry but you believe the Tory lie.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

None of that is true. If you believe this then sorry but you believe the Tory lie.

are you saying that there is enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

None of that is true. If you believe this then sorry but you believe the Tory lie.

No different to you believing all the Corbyn/Labour lies. It comes down to opinion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Re the NHS.
Too many people to look after nowadays, we are living too long.
Too many time wasters as well.

Time wasters should be fined - I have long believed that. It may sound harsh but we have to put a stop to it and direct that money where it is actually needed.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I wonder how much is robbed out of the NHS each year?

out the back door etc...

[Withano]

Yes

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Time wasters should be fined - I have long believed that. It may sound harsh but we have to put a stop to it and direct that money where it is actually needed.

agree in principle, but it may be difficult

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

are you saying that there is enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want?

No, that would be silly but that's not what I said.

Professor Richard Murphy explains it much better than I could.

"There is no limit to the amount of money a government can create if it so wishes. Money creation is, after all, costless. It is also technically limitless. That does not mean a government should be reckless. There is, of course inflation to consider. But that is what tax is for. It is government spending that creates the ability to tax. Where else, after all, does enough government created money to pay tax come from if government does not create it in the first place? Quite emphatically, it is not tax that creates the capacity for government to spend; that capacity always exists. Instead it is taxation that limits inflation when the government is spending to meet social purpose, for example, by funding the NHS. And spending in that way is always desirable, and there is always a gain to society, until the point is reached then the economy is working at its capacity, from which point the UK as a whole has been so far adrift for so long a time. That’s precisely why any constraint on NHS spending is inappropriate at present"

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/?s=privatization

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No different to you believing all the Corbyn/Labour lies. It comes down to opinion.

There's enough fact out there for it not to be an opinion.

Do I believe Corbyn can save the NHS? No I don't.
Do Believe Corbyn will attempt to save the NHS?... yes.

That's opinion!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by -Sue-

We give so much money away that the hardworking tax payer fork out very little of which seems to help us! (the UK) amazingly it's not rare to see government say were making NHS cuts! closing libraries! closing youth clubs! we must cut police force!

Fore example In 2016, the UK spent £13.4 billion on overseas aid, in line with the 0.7% target.

^^^ imagine what a benefit that would have been within the UK!!!

Agree Sue. We need to concentrate on our own before giving so much to overseas aid.

[Kazanne]

I think there is a lot of waste and greed,just this week there was a story of some who worked in the NHS who had ripped it off to the tune of a million quid over time,plus I know councils who spent ridiculous amounts out on sending glossy calendars out to all their tenants every year,these are not cheap calendars ,and must cost thousands,also their council vans painted with bloody Wallace and Grommit advertising how caring the council is,lol really did they actually need those vans painting? they could use that money for the repairs that should be done instead of claiming they have no money all the time,so I don't think the government alone can be blamed ,there is a LOT of greed and waste in these companies, the government will be fighting a losing battle throwing money at people who are intent on wasting and looking after themselves, but I guess some have to blame someone.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...n-scam-4706806

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

LT half of the things you have listed are mostly or entirely privatised... they're not government / public services . Get your head out of the 1980's man!



Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


Electricity

Privatised and comparatively expensive


Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]

Pretty much a shambles, massively under-funded in recent years, miserable staff and constant cuts.


Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)

Suffering and under-funded, lots of strike action, not an attractive or competitive career path



Environmental protection





Health care (NHS)

Needs it's own thread tbqfh. I see a lot of people saying that it's fine because they;ve had recent good experiences with the NHS. This is entirely thanks to staff who are very committed to taking good care of their patients. It IS on it's knees. Staff are under insane amounts of pressure and things are getting worse. The fact that in most services, the staff manage to shield the public from the huge problems that the NHS is facing due to systematic and deliberate under-funding, is a credit to them. In some service areas things are genuinely horrendous for both staff and patients.

Military

Bigger than it needs to be and in my opinion, in need of systematic modernisation and a departure from Monarchy-Empire-based tradition.


Postal service

No longer a public service


Public bank

Improving since recession but mostly privatised?


Public broadcasting

Kill it with fire tbh.

Public library

Do they even still exist?


Public security

Non-police security is almost entirely privatised.


Public transportation

Mostly privatised, also shameful and getting worse, with cuts to councils meaning that local bus services (which were often subsidised) in many areas are all but non-existent at this point. Long train journeys, the trains can be decent quality. Commuter trains and pretty much all buses are clapped out and disgusting.

Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)

Another one that needs it's own thread. The situation with social services in almost all areas of the UK isn't just bad... it's criminal / corrupt. Welfare to be honest isn't AWFUL and could so easily be mostly fixed with a few tweaks and less focus on punitive measures and cuts to the disabled. Universal Credit was a great system on paper but the implementation was incompetent to the point of disaster and is still in a huge mess.


Telecommunications

Again LT... Not a public service, telecoms is private. [edited to add] In this case I'm not saying that's a bad thing: telecoms is actually fairly decent (compared to most countries) and also is improving. It's also well priced in recent years, especially mobile telecoms, where most of the cost is basically the handset and if you go sim-only you can get unlimited everything practically free . If anything, BT's monopoly needs to CONTINUE to be dismantled. You could argue that other countries have better / faster cabled infrastructure HOWEVER - I personally think making massive upgrades there is a waste of time and money because super-fast broadband is eventually going to go completely over-the-air and cabled networking will be redundant.

Urban planning




Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)

Sliding, badly. Also very selective. If you live in an affluent / high council tax area councils bend over backwards to ensure the roads are decent. My village is one, the roads are immaculate... can't have all of the rich folks moving away because they keep damaging their landrovers after all. 7 miles down the road in the less-affluent villages? Actual footage of a bus avoiding a pothole:




There are also constant issues on the motorways.



Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)

The sewerage and water systems are extensive and generally very well run, to be fair. Recycling facilities are decent, although apparently most of it is just getting dumped anyway . General household waste though? Getting worse and worse, we're down to 3-weekly here and possibly going to monthly. In the summer the problems with vermin / wasps / flies (and maggots) / smell are horrendous.

Water supply network

See above re: water and sewerage

Fantastic post. I agree with almost all of it except what Livia said about the military. However, if other areas still ran properly then the army would not need to be solarge to cover failings in other services. Its all about nukes now, and no matter how big someones army is, it can do nothing against a nuke tbh, and once one nutjob sets a beast off, we are all ****ed, regardless of what 'counter' weapons we have. Its all well and good to think 'oh if they fire we can fire back'..but what would it achieve really?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I think there is a lot of waste and greed,just this week there was a story of some who worked in the NHS who had ripped it off to the tune of a million quid over time,plus I know councils who spent ridiculous amounts out on sending glossy calendars out to all their tenants every year,these are not cheap calendars ,and must cost thousands,also their council vans painted with bloody Wallace and Grommit advertising how caring the council is,lol really did they actually need those vans painting? they could use that money for the repairs that should be done instead of claiming they have no money all the time,so I don't think the government alone can be blamed ,there is a LOT of greed and waste in these companies, the government will be fighting a losing battle throwing money at people who are intent on wasting and looking after themselves, but I guess some have to blame someone.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...n-scam-4706806

A £million quid is nothing if you compare it to the £70 billion given out in PFI most of which has ended up in offshore tax havens and guess who has to pay that high interest £70... now £80 billion back?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

What a ridiculous comment, seriously how? How in a democracy would he do that Livia? This is just a reactionary scaremongering post that has no basis whatsoever in fact.
He could never even garner enough votes in the commons for a vote for against so why this comment, it's a nonsense.

Why must we be constantly be preparing for war? Every damn time the tories get in it's 'prepare for war' time... because they're warmongers! They love it, stomping round the globe flogging their bombs and training the troops of any country with a few spare billion.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what part?

Well I think that the NHS needs more staff first and foremost, there's more patients going into their Hospitals than ever before (due to the higher population nowadays obviously) and they seem to have less people actually working there to help sustain the pressure that the current workers are constantly under, and dare I say it have to then take a priority on which patients to help or not because they haven't got enough workers to try to help everyone.

This tbf has got worse under the Tories, but it did start under Labour and it's all in this weird ambition to have healthcare like the United States who expect you to pay loads of Health Insurance just to have the Doctors save your life, but of course that is a separate discussion.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

are you saying that there is enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want?

Tbf the DUP got £1.5bn out of our Government so it's not out of reach that they could actually put more money into the NHS.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What a ridiculous comment, seriously how? How in a democracy would he do that Livia? This is just a reactionary scaremongering post that has no basis whatsoever in fact.
He could never even garner enough votes in the commons for a vote for against so why this comment, it's a nonsense.

Why must we be constantly be preparing for war? Every damn time the tories get in it's 'prepare for war' time... because they're warmongers! They love it, stomping round the globe flogging their bombs and training the troops of any country with a few spare billion.

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.