[Livia]

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

To be fair, though, isn't this sort of the point? War has changed; a standing army is worthless in the face of nuclear weapons, and all of the major powers have them now. A large-scale conflict involving ground troops like WW2 will never happen again. So that leaves the sort of small, tactics-based conflicts we've seen for the last 30 years... and a LARGE army isn't really necessary for those, either. An effective military force is now down to having the best tech and equipment, not the most feet in boots.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, though, isn't this sort of the point? War has changed; a standing army is worthless in the face of nuclear weapons, and all of the major powers have them now. A large-scale conflict involving ground troops like WW2 will never happen again. So that leaves the sort of small, tactics-based conflicts we've seen for the last 30 years... and a LARGE army isn't really necessary for those, either. An effective military force is now down to having the best tech and equipment, not the most feet in boots.

Well, yes... that's the excuses that are being given for the cuts to the military. But the military themselves, while they agree that warfare has changed, and that a massive army is no longer needed, a standing army of less than 80,000, when they are called on for all kinds of stuff is just not big enough. When the Fire Service go on strike for instance, or when the security at a major sporting event like the Olympics goes tits up, who you gonna call? When the ebola crisis started, the Royal Navy were the first people there, followed by the British Army. And the humanitarian and peacekeeping work they do, which often goes unreported because it's not controversial, is going to be hard to automatise. Furthermore, the government is trying to fill the gaps by making the Territorial Army bigger, and involving them now where only regular troops may previously have gone. Part-timers, while I don't want to diminish their great contribution, are not the same a regular soldiers.

So in conclusion, I do kind of agree that a massive standing army is no longer required, but we've gone too far the other way. The people making the cuts are civilians, with all the reasons why a smaller army is okay. But the military themselves say something else entirely. I do have a little hope in the latest Minister for Defence, even though he seems kind of young for the job, seems to be quite keen to allow our armed forces both the equipment and the manpower needed to do the job we ask of them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

What a ridiculous comment, seriously how? How in a democracy would he do that Livia? This is just a reactionary scaremongering post that has no basis whatsoever in fact.
He could never even garner enough votes in the commons for a vote for against so why this comment, it's a nonsense.

Why must we be constantly be preparing for war? Every damn time the tories get in it's 'prepare for war' time... because they're warmongers! They love it, stomping round the globe flogging their bombs and training the troops of any country with a few spare billion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What a ridiculous comment, seriously how? How in a democracy would he do that Livia? This is just a reactionary scaremongering post that has no basis whatsoever in fact.
He could never even garner enough votes in the commons for a vote for against so why this comment, it's a nonsense.

Why must we be constantly be preparing for war? Every damn time the tories get in it's 'prepare for war' time... because they're warmongers! They love it, stomping round the globe flogging their bombs and training the troops of any country with a few spare billion.

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

Corbyn does concern me with how extremely left he is if you want my honest opinion, but at this point I don't think the country and the people within the country can take anymore of the Tories austerity plans or privatisation of public services for much longer. Yes they've got money back but look at how they're doing it, and also do you think that the people are benefiting from these schemes? Are we actually living our lives? Or are we slowly becoming more dependent on stuff like Jobseeker's and loans just to get by? As I've already said I understand the fears that alot of people have about Jeremy Corbyn, but personally I don't think that any of us can handle the Tories schemes for much longer, I know that this will sound silly but it's like watching a Movie villain ruling the real life situations of the UK and it's sickening to me.

I also don't like the 1984 element of Theresa May and the rest of the Tories wanting to invade people's privacy on their Phones and Computers, that to me is just disgraceful and a slippery slope. And again is something I'd moan about alot more but it's nothing to do with the discussion on this thread.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

You have no reason to say that whatsoever, it's just a nonsense thing to say because it could never happen. it wouldn't even get enough backing to be brought as a question for the house of commons...

If you thought about it in a realistic fashion instead of the knee jerk 'i hate corbyn' goto reaction you'd realise this.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have no reason to say that whatsoever, it's just a nonsense thing to say because it could never happen. it wouldn't even get enough backing to be brought as a question for the house of commons...

If you thought about it in a realistic fashion instead of the knee jerk 'i hate corbyn' goto reaction you'd realise this.

I have every reason. It isn't just about nuclear weapons but his views on all sorts of issues that could put our security at risk. He is not the pure and honest old man you think he is despite your repeated attempts to convince us all he is.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

You mean like the right we had a say on regarding austerity or the right we had a say on regarding the selling off of the NHS?

A democracy is supposed to represent its people and not divide those people down the middle. Anyone who pays any attention to politics can see that the Tory party continually and surreptitiously try to fragment and even disenfranchise democracy.

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You mean like the right we had a say on regarding austerity or the right we had a say on regarding the selling off of the NHS?

A democracy is supposed to represent its people and not divide those people down the middle. Anyone who pays any attention to politics can see that the Tory party continually and surreptitiously try to fragment and even disenfranchise democracy.

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

quite right BOTS

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

Ah, that's not strictly true is it? they needed the help of the money tree remember?....

That was one fiddle with democracy, the other is the changes proposed to voter ID.
It is purported to combat 'voter fraud' there was one case of voter fraud at the last election.
This change would see I think it was something like a third of voters without photo ID prevented from exercising their democratic right.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ah, that's not strictly true is it? they needed the help of the money tree remember?....

That was one fiddle with democracy, the other is the changes proposed to voter ID.
It is purported to combat 'voter fraud' there was one case of voter fraud at the last election.
This change would see I think it was something like a third of voters without photo ID prevented from exercising their democratic right.

And if that's not undemocratic I don't know what is!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

do you have a date that was specified for each of these?

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact