[Maru]

Has your politics gone more towards the extreme(s), or would you say things have leveled off a bit?

For example,

If you were center-right/center-left before, are you now more firmly in a particular camp i.e. left or right (option 1)

... or have you gone more centrist (option 2)

Or are you now more firmly in the mushy middle and are you now more undecided? (option 3)

Or... are you actually, intentionally or not, a swing voter, and you literally swing from one poll to the other depending on who runs or who promises what... very much an emotional eater when it comes to your political alignment. (option 4)

[kirklancaster]

Hi Deb,

I was a very, very staunch Socialist - a devout Labour voter - in my youth and through to my mid-thirties.

I vigorously campaigned for the Labour Party, for The Campaign For Homosexual Equality, marched with The Aldermaston Campaign For Nuclear Disarmament marchers (1972), donated thousands of pounds in money AND goods from my 'Mini-Market' to the striking miners in 1984 and 1985, and detested the Tories.

Since that time, as I became more aware, I became disillusioned with most politicians and resorted to 'Swing Voting' - my vote, often by default, going to which party at the time seemed the lesser of the evils.

I voted UKIP last time, but for a good few years now, I have moved to the Right - largely due to the extreme left Anti-Democratic, Anti-British, Terrorist-Appeasing, Anti-Semitic, infiltration of the Labour Party which I have perceived, but also the facts that Socialist Ideology is ludicrously naive and Socialist Economic Policy DOES NOT WORK and NEVER will.

[Oliver_W]

I've said this before, but I used to assume I was "left wing" because I approve of gay marriage, I'm pro free speech, and I want the environment protected. As it happens, in the modern political climate these are either neutral or right wing. I've always believed in low flat taxes and controlled immigration.

But my views haven't become more extreme or anything.

[Toy Soldier]

I used to be more towards the left but have shifted towards the centre when it comes to allegiance; in large part due to the fact that that left-leaning individuals and organisations have an increasing tendency to want to lump people into various categories and groups, and to the very core I simply believe in individuality over gang mentality and tribalism.

I don't believe as strongly in wealth redistribution as I once did; though I don't believe that there's any reason for anyone to be struggling, or for those at the top to be hoarding literal billions.

I also strongly believe in social fairness, universal access to free, good quality health care, mental health services, and sufficient, comfortable (not just subsistence / scraping by) financial support for the disabled and vulnerable. I don't think that HAS to be left-leaning politics, I think everyone should want that and that many right-leaning people need go start to understand the importance of social spending for maintaining a functional society that is actually worth living in. I also think that many right-leaning people need to understand that "hard austerity" is not some wonderful policy of the right, and that spending money on maintaining, improving and developing our towns, roads, etc. is essential.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I've said this before, but I used to assume I was "left wing" because I approve of gay marriage, I'm pro free speech, and I want the environment protected. As it happens, in the modern political climate these are either neutral or right wing. I've always believed in low flat taxes and controlled immigration.

But my views haven't become more extreme or anything.

I will add, I more vehemently believe in clamping down on borders since the migrant crisis and the negative effects it's having across Europe, but I don't view that as extreme or unreasonable.

[waterhog]

loved labour growing up and blair - then the war and growing up and realizing none of them say what they are going to do and all line own pockets and do not represent real people.

[Niamh.]

Our two main parties I would say are more centre than left or right anyway, I consider myself basically centre probably left leaning but some issues maybe a little to the right, I wouldn't like to put myself in a left or right box, each issue is completely different, just taking either the left or right side regardless just because that's the box you've committed to is a bit stupid imo

[smudgie]

Nothing much changed with me in the past couple of years.
I don’t agree with everything the Tories say or do, but I don’t have any faith in the opposition of the day.

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Nothing much changed with me in the past couple of years.
I don’t agree with everything the Tories say or do, but I don’t have any faith in the opposition of the day.

we need a revolution - where is r. brand

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by waterhog

we need a revolution - where is r. brand

I was at his one of his shows on Monday

[bitontheslide]

My political position hasn't changed in decades. I am not a particular fan of either Tory or Labour politics, I just dislike the labour party more than the tories. If there was a true social democratic party I think I would give it my vote, but it doesn't exist.

[Kizzy]

I would say firm left, I was more centrist in 2010 ( voted lib dem) never again, don't agree with centrist labour either.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Hi Deb,

I was a very, very staunch Socialist - a devout Labour voter - in my youth and through to my mid-thirties.

I vigorously campaigned for the Labour Party, for The Campaign For Homosexual Equality, marched with The Aldermaston Campaign For Nuclear Disarmament marchers (1972), donated thousands of pounds in money AND goods from my 'Mini-Market' to the striking miners in 1984 and 1985, and detested the Tories.

Since that time, as I became more aware, I became disillusioned with most politicians and resorted to 'Swing Voting' - my vote, often by default, going to which party at the time seemed the lesser of the evils.

I voted UKIP last time, but for a good few years now, I have moved to the Right - largely due to the extreme left Anti-Democratic, Anti-British, Terrorist-Appeasing, Anti-Semitic, infiltration of the Labour Party which I have perceived, but also the facts that Socialist Ideology is ludicrously naive and Socialist Economic Policy DOES NOT WORK and NEVER will.

Just curious, Kirk, were you raised on the left or just brought to it in your youth? My family are proud Democrats, but we didn't really talk much politics and I had no idea what the conclusions of either platform really were... though I think they were blue collar democrats more than the "socialist" variety. My family is still very traditional.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I've said this before, but I used to assume I was "left wing" because I approve of gay marriage, I'm pro free speech, and I want the environment protected. As it happens, in the modern political climate these are either neutral or right wing. I've always believed in low flat taxes and controlled immigration.

But my views haven't become more extreme or anything.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I will add, I more vehemently believe in clamping down on borders since the migrant crisis and the negative effects it's having across Europe, but I don't view that as extreme or unreasonable.

I think you and I would get along just fine, Oliver I don't have as many issues with immigration here as other folk might. Many of my friends are either first or second generation Americans, but... it's not tenable to continue with the influx we do have. I don't think it is preventable though the way that politicians promise? And with as significant of a border we do have with Mexico for example, I think the issue is more the crime and the drug wars that are coming over... for example, we had a huge problem 5-10 years back with cartel violence entering into Texas and it was considered dangerous to go into particular parts of Mexico or near certain parts of the border where the cartels sort of "ran" things.

I do think that for what we have in large borders, we do sit between oceans... and unlike the UK, we don't have to deal with as many different types of inputs from regions. There's a paywall effectively with dealing with the US geographically... like, you'd need to jump on a plane or build a ship or something to get here to bring any sort of issues. So I think, of the immigration issues... we have it much easier than those in Europe where many more factors come into play. Whereas the US really only has to worry about two countries ...and neither are particularly bad neighbors tbqh... both countries are great neighbors and wonderful allies to have imo

But yeah, I don't know that the wall will be effectively, but we absolutely do need to start enforcing our immigration laws... open borders and sanctuary states are not tenable for the long-term.

And yes, a flat tax and a much more simplified (and yet robust) tax code without all the bells and whistles ftw.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I used to be more towards the left but have shifted towards the centre when it comes to allegiance; in large part due to the fact that that left-leaning individuals and organisations have an increasing tendency to want to lump people into various categories and groups, and to the very core I simply believe in individuality over gang mentality and tribalism.

I don't believe as strongly in wealth redistribution as I once did; though I don't believe that there's any reason for anyone to be struggling, or for those at the top to be hoarding literal billions.

I also strongly believe in social fairness, universal access to free, good quality health care, mental health services, and sufficient, comfortable (not just subsistence / scraping by) financial support for the disabled and vulnerable. I don't think that HAS to be left-leaning politics, I think everyone should want that and that many right-leaning people need go start to understand the importance of social spending for maintaining a functional society that is actually worth living in. I also think that many right-leaning people need to understand that "hard austerity" is not some wonderful policy of the right, and that spending money on maintaining, improving and developing our towns, roads, etc. is essential.

What is allegiance? I think "Pledge of Allegiance" when I read that term...

I think a lot of people are noticing what you mention about the left. I don't think of it as a right-leaning idea that people generally don't want to lumped into categories. We grew up in the generation of non-conformity and eschewing group labels... so it's a bit of a whiplash to have it shift a totally different direction.

I don't think we've seen genuine austerity measures in the US for a long time. I would like to see some cuts, but in sensible areas, like types of welfare that only increase the deficit and encourage endless child bearing... single motherhood shouldn't be something that is profitable, but sadly it is more-so than other forms of social welfare... disability (SSI), etc though, they are not paid anywhere near a living wage and contributes to homelessness, as well as the lack of proper mental health care. And while being recipients they are eligible for different types of housing... but still, who wants to live in a roach infested drug den and with all it's associated drama? Most people who are making it "OK" on disability often have a relative to live with... but not all do obviously. Actually, I think people on disability should be allowed the option to work a small amount and maybe encouraged if it's a certain type of job where little a warm body and some attention is all that's needed, so as to allow them some level of emotional comfort and physical independence (mainly the emotional benefits)... if they are at all capable. Not all disabled folk are 100% disabled, and that's pretty much the clearance for acquiring welfare... there's a difference between not being 100% independent, but then being so physically disabled that without help, they would not be able to survive by their own means... there was a period in my life I was very sick, that it became an option a good friend who was a disability lawyer said he could help me get through the application process pro-bono... but the idea of restricting myself from being able to work or contribute at all was soul-crushing... and to go through that process, I could never go back to work or I would likely be denied care entirely even if it something did change later again where I was even worse off... the system here is quite sensitive to any suggestion you are even slightly capable of working to maintain an income. That would be a major red flag to the judge in charge of the appeals process (just about guaranteed you will have to appeal), so yeah...

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Our two main parties I would say are more centre than left or right anyway, I consider myself basically centre probably left leaning but some issues maybe a little to the right, I wouldn't like to put myself in a left or right box, each issue is completely different, just taking either the left or right side regardless just because that's the box you've committed to is a bit stupid imo

Sounds like you are a maybe an independent. But, do you have firm beliefs on policy? Not necessarily social issues, but things like the economy I think is what squares most folk into either camp... like on the left, they would favor more distribution of wealth and higher govt resources and regulation, whereas right, those folk are more towards the spectrum of financial independence and limited govt... limited govt there though would seem to differ from what would be proposed here? Especially with something like the EU in the picture.

[Maru]

I think I discussed before I've gone more right since the 2016 election, mainly on the economy and a variety of social issues. For similar reasons to TS, though my politics are more in line with Oliver. Especially with things like the environment... I am very big on recycling and mindful of things like my chemicals when I work in my garage or when I use oils. I will take them to some place to be recycled or I will drop off at Goodwill... I build computers in my spare time so I have a "graveyard" of parts that I pull from other people's machines and I will recycle them into new machines or I will drop them off at recycle places that use those parts in refurbs.

Even in fast food shops or if I go someplace where I get a plastic bottle, I keep the place in my door empty to put empty bottles and I keep doors and compartments empty for passengers (or myself when I go out of town to visit). I have a pretty good habit of pulling that stuff out and recycling it... I can't stand clutter in closed-in spaces and the idea of bacteria developing inside the cabin is nauseating so I still keep it pretty clean.

I also maintain my vehicle with the good sh1t and regularly use a sunvisor, etc so that it will last a long time, versus running vehicles into the ground which is what many people do here. I don't believe in buying another vehicle when you can fix a current one... I got the one with the bells and whistles I liked and plan to keep it a long time. I have a family member who is still driving his car he had from when I was very young... and the thing has crazy miles on it, but it's still a beast... that kind of resourcefulness and sustainability impresses me, especially when it comes to governance.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Maru

Just curious, Kirk, were you raised on the left or just brought to it in your youth? My family are proud Democrats, but we didn't really talk much politics and I had no idea what the conclusions of either platform really were... though I think they were blue collar democrats more than the "socialist" variety. My family is still very traditional.





I think you and I would get along just fine, Oliver I don't have as many issues with immigration here as other folk might. Many of my friends are either first or second generation Americans, but... it's not tenable to continue with the influx we do have. I don't think it is preventable though the way that politicians promise? And with as significant of a border we do have with Mexico for example, I think the issue is more the crime and the drug wars that are coming over... for example, we had a huge problem 5-10 years back with cartel violence entering into Texas and it was considered dangerous to go into particular parts of Mexico or near certain parts of the border where the cartels sort of "ran" things.

I do think that for what we have in large borders, we do sit between oceans... and unlike the UK, we don't have to deal with as many different types of inputs from regions. There's a paywall effectively with dealing with the US geographically... like, you'd need to jump on a plane or build a ship or something to get here to bring any sort of issues. So I think, of the immigration issues... we have it much easier than those in Europe where many more factors come into play. Whereas the US really only has to worry about two countries ...and neither are particularly bad neighbors tbqh... both countries are great neighbors and wonderful allies to have imo

But yeah, I don't know that the wall will be effectively, but we absolutely do need to start enforcing our immigration laws... open borders and sanctuary states are not tenable for the long-term.

And yes, a flat tax and a much more simplified (and yet robust) tax code without all the bells and whistles ftw.



What is allegiance? I think "Pledge of Allegiance" when I read that term...

I think a lot of people are noticing what you mention about the left. I don't think of it as a right-leaning idea that people generally don't want to lumped into categories. We grew up in the generation of non-conformity and eschewing group labels... so it's a bit of a whiplash to have it shift a totally different direction.

I don't think we've seen genuine austerity measures in the US for a long time. I would like to see some cuts, but in sensible areas, like types of welfare that only increase the deficit and encourage endless child bearing... single motherhood shouldn't be something that is profitable, but sadly it is more-so than other forms of social welfare... disability (SSI), etc though, they are not paid anywhere near a living wage and contributes to homelessness, as well as the lack of proper mental health care. And while being recipients they are eligible for different types of housing... but still, who wants to live in a roach infested drug den and with all it's associated drama? Most people who are making it "OK" on disability often have a relative to live with... but not all do obviously. Actually, I think people on disability should be allowed the option to work a small amount and maybe encouraged if it's a certain type of job where little a warm body and some attention is all that's needed, so as to allow them some level of emotional comfort and physical independence (mainly the emotional benefits)... if they are at all capable. Not all disabled folk are 100% disabled, and that's pretty much the clearance for acquiring welfare... there's a difference between not being 100% independent, but then being so physically disabled that without help, they would not be able to survive by their own means... there was a period in my life I was very sick, that it became an option a good friend who was a disability lawyer said he could help me get through the application process pro-bono... but the idea of restricting myself from being able to work or contribute at all was soul-crushing... and to go through that process, I could never go back to work or I would likely be denied care entirely even if it something did change later again where I was even worse off... the system here is quite sensitive to any suggestion you are even slightly capable of working to maintain an income. That would be a major red flag to the judge in charge of the appeals process (just about guaranteed you will have to appeal), so yeah...



Sounds like you are a maybe an independent. But, do you have firm beliefs on policy? Not necessarily social issues, but things like the economy I think is what squares most folk into either camp... like on the left, they would favor more distribution of wealth and higher govt resources and regulation, whereas right, those folk are more towards the spectrum of financial independence and limited govt... limited govt there though would seem to differ from what would be proposed here? Especially with something like the EU in the picture.

To do with economy definitely centre

[parmnion]

Can we have, would never vote for a bunch of corrupt and dishonest bastards option.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Maru

But yeah, I don't know that the wall will be effectively, but we absolutely do need to start enforcing our immigration laws... open borders and sanctuary states are not tenable for the long-term.

I'd like to live in the USA some day, and while I'm "qualified" enough etc I know it's not a sure thing to get approved, so I sometimes consider just taking my degree to a sanctuary state. I did look online and some school districts say their hiring procedures don't consider citizen status ...