[Withano]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well not really some people like to appear as the opposite sex without ever fully transitioning don't they?

Transexuals, transvestites..

I mean, a transexual is defined by the fact that they transistion their sex? So..
Do transvestites identify as the other sex? I dont know much about them tbf. Seems retro.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I mean, a transexual is defined by the fact that they transistion their sex? So..
Do transvestites identify as the other sex? I dont know much about them tbf. Seems retro.

According to stonewalls definition of trans, transvestites are included. Along with drag queens, masculine women, feminine men, and so on. Thats what I mean by 'transgender' is a useless term. I am classed as bloody trans.

There is a huge difference between someone under the huge 'transgender' umbrella, and someone who is actually transsexual.

And yes, a lot of transvestites say they are women and want access to womens spaces...part of the fetish I guess for some. And many 'normal' guys just claim to 'feel like' women and expect others to play along.These kinds of people are who I want to keep out. Not transsexuals.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Withano

I mean, a transexual is defined by the fact that they transistion their sex? So..
Do transvestites identify as the other sex? I dont know much about them tbf. Seems retro.

they don't all fully transition it's personal choice isn't it?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

they don't all fully transition it's personal choice isn't it?

“Fully transition” ?

What?do some just get the bolloxs cut off and call it a day?

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

“Fully transition” ?

What?do some just get the bolloxs cut off and call it a day?

Some can't have all the procedures done for a variety of reasons. I have a female to male friend who was given the procedure to have his breasts removed, but he isn't allowed 'bottom surgery' for medical reasons.

This is where it sort of complicates the issue. He's a man to look at, to meet him, to hear him speak, if he was seen entering a women's changing room he would probably be considered a pervert, I'd assume that many of the people who don't want men in female areas would not want him there because to look at him they would assume he's a man. However he has a vagina, and although not 'fully transitioned', he is a transsexual man. Under the rule of 'penises here and vaginas there', as simple as it might sound as a solution, it wouldn't leave someone like him with many other options other than to just stay at home, or be forced to show his vagina on entry to a women's private space should he need to use one.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Some can't have all the procedures done for a variety of reasons. I have a female to male friend who was given the procedure to have his breasts removed, but he isn't allowed 'bottom surgery' for medical reasons.

This is where it sort of complicates the issue. He's a man to look at, to meet him, to hear him speak, if he was seen entering a women's changing room he would probably be considered a pervert, I'd assume that many of the people who don't want men in female areas would not want him there because to look at him they would assume he's a man. However he has a vagina, and although not 'fully transitioned', he is a transsexual man. Under the rule of 'penises here and vaginas there', as simple as it might sound as a solution, it wouldn't leave someone like him with many other options other than to just stay at home, or be forced to show his vagina on entry to a women's private space should he need to use one.

I think its a bit different if people 'pass', as noone would even know.

I would personally feel much more comfortable changing infront of a transman, than a regular man, as a transman is female. But if they pass, they would fit in in the mens anyway. Transmen seem to pass more often than transwomen.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think its a bit different if people 'pass', as noone would even know.

I would personally feel much more comfortable changing infront of a transman, than a regular man, as a transman is female. But if they pass, they would fit in in the mens anyway. Transmen seem to pass more often than transwomen.

Oh yeah, well it's certainly easy(ish) for him as things currently are (I mean not really easy in every situation but compared to the how I put it across in my post I mean). If it's about how people 'pass' rather than their biology though, does that not contradict the argument that people with penises should be in one area and people with vaginas should be in the other?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh yeah, well it's certainly easy(ish) for him as things currently are (I mean not really easy in every situation but compared to the how I put it across in my post I mean). If it's about how people 'pass' rather than their biology though, does that not contradict the argument that people with penises should be in one area and people with vaginas should be in the other?

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

they don't all fully transition it's personal choice isn't it?

I feel like the conversation is more about individuals which makes general umbrella words meaningless. I'd take a common sense approach, I don't personally think a drag queen or a transvestite should be allowed in a womans area unless they were actively planning on transistioning in the near future. In an ideal world, there would be a third changing room / bathroom option.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I feel like the conversation is more about individuals which makes general umbrella words meaningless. I'd take a common sense approach, I don't personally think a drag queen or a transvestite should be allowed in a womans area unless they were actively planning on transistioning in the near future. In an ideal world, there would be a third changing room / bathroom option.

Indeed. I have been saying this for ****ing ages. Where possible, add a unisex option.

Until then, men will have to accept gender non conforming men in their spaces tbh. Who cares if the guy next to you has a skirt on or whatever? Hes still a bloke.

Even if someone is 'planning on transitioning', until they actually transition, they use the correct space for their sex.

Transsexuals should have the option to use the space of the sex have tried to become. But otherwise, nope nope nope. Which is why I say no to 'self ID'.