[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Look, you can't have an ongoing debate if its just about mocking Corbyn, unless of course that's all you want this thread for, but then it wouldn't be a debate, it would be an agenda. Baying mobs are unattractive regardless of what side of the fence you sit on. Just going over and over the same old same old is mind numbingly boring or maybe you disagree. If you can't see beyond the rant, then you're under no obligation to involve yourself in the 'ifs, what's, why's and therefore's'.

the debate has been ongoing due to the continuation of events being reported about Corbyn and the labour party. You can't shift the topic of the debate just because you dont like it's subject.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Look, you can't have an ongoing debate if its just about mocking Corbyn

It's also hard to have a debate with someone who reduces criticism of actions to "mockery". There's been very little actual substanceless mockery for bare pages.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Funnily enough my father-in-law is staying with us at the moment and he keeps laughing at me because every time I come on here I'm ranting. I'm not angry, just frustrated. I'm so keen to have a really good discussion about the Left and the Right of these issues but it feels like a brick wall.

He suggested I'm frustrated on his behalf and I think he's right. I should leave this thread well alone because I'm allowing it to encroach on my every day life which is unhealthy.

But Red.... It feels like a brick wall to us that hold opposite views to you as well, because, DESPITE discussing/debating the Left and Right of these issues with you (even going beyond the parameters of the Thread topic to do so) YOU just blindly REFUSE to accept ANY viewpoint which DOES NOT AGREE with yours - no matter how WELL substantiated by HARD evidence those differing viewpoints are.

With ALL due respect, I believe that it is your obsessional devotion to Corbyn that is 'unhealthy'.

In my opinion anyway.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

Strictly speaking, the thread is about anti Semitism in the Labour party, and news/articles/opinions relating to that will get all mixed up with the broader subject of Palestine/Israel. That would be an interesting thread on its own.
Unless you are just interested in the subject as relating to attempting to absolve Corbyn/anti - Semitic Labour members (which it could be seen as), which is your right to do of course.
I would welcome a thread on it from those who are knowledgeable on the subject, I know a bit, but not nearly enough.

Of course I want to absolve Corbyn, he's an innocent man.
I am ambivalent about quite a lot of Corbyn politics but I'm not going to stand there humming whilst he's being taken down by people who twist his words to sit with their agenda. A few weeks ago he was a spy, next month he's going to be something else even more heinous. These are the things I see you ringing your hands over. You dislike Corbyn and so you're narrative will always sit with the ones who make the allegations.

I've made my views clear about Israel before. This is a subject close to my heart and so when Corbyn first stood up in parliament and spoke about Israel breaking the UN Resolution, I was all ears. For me and many others he was a brave man for speaking out. Now he's being punished but I believe, all this will bring him a lot more support than he previously had because from where I'm standing, people can see this for what it is.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the debate has been ongoing due to the continuation of events being reported about Corbyn and the labour party. You can't shift the topic of the debate just because you dont like it's subject.

About Corbyn? You mean more reveling, more mocking to be had!
Why are you trying to shut me down. I suspect its because I've got something to say and you don't like it. I'm spoiling your fun.

Every comment channel I use are discussing this same issue and everyone is talking about the deeper issues behind what's happening but on here I'm taking it off topic.

Sometimes this place feels like kinder garden.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

But Red.... It feels like a brick wall to us that hold opposite views to you as well, because, DESPITE discussing/debating the Left and Right of these issues with you (even going beyond the parameters of the Thread topic to do so) YOU just blindly REFUSE to accept ANY viewpoint which DOES NOT AGREE with yours - no matter how WELL substantiated by HARD evidence those differing viewpoints are.

With ALL due respect, I believe that it is your obsessional devotion to Corbyn that is 'unhealthy'.

In my opinion anyway.

All you have as evidence are a few CAPITALS... And again you make unwarranted comments that people are 'obsessional' because they don't share your opinion.
It's not a debate, it's pushing how rude you can be to members with whom you disagree.

[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Of course I want to absolve Corbyn, he's an innocent man.
I am ambivalent about quite a lot of Corbyn politics but I'm not going to stand there humming whilst he's being taken down by people who twist his words to sit with their agenda. A few weeks ago he was a spy, next month he's going to be something else even more heinous. These are the things I see you ringing your hands over. You dislike Corbyn and so you're narrative will always sit with the ones who make the allegations.

I've made my views clear about Israel before. This is a subject close to my heart and so when Corbyn first stood up in parliament and spoke about Israel breaking the UN Resolution, I was all ears. For me and many others he was a brave man for speaking out. Now he's being punished but I believe, all this will bring him a lot more support than he previously had because from where I'm standing, people can see this for what it is.

You won't be able to absolve him.
There is ample evidence he was an ira supporter, there is ample evidence that he ignored anti - Semitism in the Labour party and displayed anti - semitism himself although he puts that down to 'I didn't know' I didn't realise'.
A spy? There wasn't enough proof for that one which is why it died quickly - the rest - absolutely!
He is the eternal 'opposition', he has never had the responsibility of doing anything other than 'opposing' this that or the other anti - British. Now he's reaping what he has sowed and is continuing to sow.
You can say he is an innocent man until you turn blue in the face, it won't make any difference to those who know otherwise, those who can read and comprehend the facts and aren't blinded by misplaced devotion.
BTW I read today that a poll has shown his support has fallen in the last few weeks.

[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

About Corbyn? You mean more reveling, more mocking to be had!
Why are you trying to shut me down. I suspect its because I've got something to say and you don't like it. I'm spoiling your fun.

Every comment channel I use are discussing this same issue and everyone is talking about the deeper issues behind what's happening but on here I'm taking it off topic.

Sometimes this place feels like kinder garden.

All you are doing is trying to justify and excuse Corbyn and his close Labour cronies saying and doing the disgusting things they were about Jews.

[Kizzy]

And all you are doing is attempting to vilify one man..Even on this forum there are comments tthat I would consider antisemitic. Is there not a thread which describes someone as 'looking' Jewish?

Let's not apply any double standards eh?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And all you are doing is attempting to vilify one man..Even on this forum there are comments tthat I would consider antisemitic. Is there not a thread which describes someone as 'looking' Jewish?

Let's not apply any double standards eh?

We are discussing facts which have happened and have been widely reported and verified.

I haven't seen antisemitic posts. If there were they should have been reported.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And all you are doing is attempting to vilify one man..Even on this forum there are comments tthat I would consider antisemitic. Is there not a thread which describes someone as 'looking' Jewish?

Let's not apply any double standards eh?

Are you referring to my post 'Jewish guy saved my day'? I said that the guy 'looked Jewish' but so he did and so he was, and the term 'looking Jewish' is NOT anti-semitic.

My post and that phrase is not REMOTELY anything like Corbyn's Labour Party's PROVEN anti-Semitism.

[jet]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Are you referring to my post 'Jewish guy saved my day'? I said that the guy 'looked Jewish' but so he did and so he was, and the term 'looking Jewish' is NOT anti-semitic.

My post and that phrase is not REMOTELY anything like Corbyn's Labour Party's PROVEN anti-Semitism.

Don't tell me Kizzy was referring to your post? ffs is there something wrong in saying someone looks Jewish?
The bare faced hypocrisy of referring to one innocent sentence in a nice post and brushing off many many blatantly antisemitic comments made by members of the Labour party, many of them close to Corbyn is abominable.
Corbyn can make awful comments like the MURAL one; he can belong to many facebook groups that post disgusting antisemitic bile, he can fraternise with
a dodgy group who want to burn down Parliament and curse at the Royal family but whatever you do don't dare say that someone looks Jewish!
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[Twosugars]

I read that post of yours Kirk and also wondered, how does one look Jewish? I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious. Because Jewish people can look so different, like any other group of people of the same religion.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I read that post of yours Kirk and also wondered, how does one look Jewish?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And all you are doing is attempting to vilify one man..Even on this forum there are comments tthat I would consider antisemitic. Is there not a thread which describes someone as 'looking' Jewish?

Let's not apply any double standards eh?

Diversion tactics! There is a plethora of evidence out there, both past and present, on the questionable beliefs, words, actions and inactions of this would-be PM. He alone is responsible for that and every aspect of his character should be scrutinised, judged and held to account - it’s what he signed up for like it or not!

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

you can't be serious

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Are you referring to my post 'Jewish guy saved my day'? I said that the guy 'looked Jewish' but so he did and so he was, and the term 'looking Jewish' is NOT anti-semitic.

My post and that phrase is not REMOTELY anything like Corbyn's Labour Party's PROVEN anti-Semitism.

How did the guy look Jewish? you have no idea if he was or not other than your assumption.

I would say your stereotyping is at the very least rather misguided .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What the hell?..... :/

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How did the guy look Jewish? you have no idea if he was or not other than your assumption.

I would say your stereotyping is at the very least rather misguided .

What does it matter if you think someone looks Jewish, unless you think there is something wrong with looking Jewish? Your views about this are verging on antisemitic.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How did the guy look Jewish?

Being Jewish is an ethnicity, and physical characteristics are associated with certain ethnicities; if I said someone "looked Chinese", people wouldn't ask how he looked Chinese.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What the hell?..... :/

Originally Posted by Twosugars

you can't be serious

I'm obviously kidding, that's my bae Fagin #Baegin

[jet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

you can't be serious

Obviously not.

Ahhh... Fagin. "I'm reviewing the situation de de de de de". Love that scene in Oliver.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jet

What does it matter if you think someone looks Jewish, unless you think there is something wrong with looking Jewish? This post is verging on antisemitic.

More attempted diversion tactics away from Corbyn and his antisemitism.

I think many people think of Jewish men as elderly, scolarly looking men with beards and glasses - sometimes true and sometimes not. It is just a common image often portrayed. Some are trying to make something out of nothing to stir the pot.

[jet]

Welcome back Brillo - you were missed.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jet

Welcome back Brillo - you were missed.

Thank you Jet!

[Northern Monkey]

At the end of the day.Corbyn has massive problems in his party with antisemites and it’s debatable whether he himself is with all these internet groups he’s part of and apologies for hateful ‘art work’.
So what could he do to heal divisions?
A good start might have been to go and meet with the wider Jewish community,The leaders and try to build bridges,To make a promise to expel the rot from the party,To challenge himself and make the effort to extend an olive branch,To tell them that Labour are ready to turn over a new leaf and most importantly to send a message that the current problems of antisemitism within Labour will not be tolerated.
But what did he actually do?
He went and had dinner in a house with a group of his supporters who may or may not have questionable views.’There you go,All done.I met some Jews.Nothing else to see here.Carry on’(paraphrasing).
Not really dealing with the issue.
If nothing else.It doesn’t look as if he made much effort.