[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i tell you what is most wrong with this sign. They are condoning racism with something that should be outlawed (misogeny) It's not a rational sign.

It's not really meant to be a sign though, isn't it meant to be a piece of art? If that's the case I don't really see the problem with it tbh? I think the point behind it's message is valid (i'm assuming 'whiteness' in terms of a power structure) and I think it's good for people to talk about that stuff. I suppose like Dezzy said they could have worded it differently to appease people, but in the context that I'm assuming it was meant, I don't really get why it's so offensive.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's not really meant to be a sign though, isn't it meant to be a piece of art? If that's the case I don't really see the problem with it tbh? I think the point behind it's message is valid (i'm assuming 'whiteness' in terms of a power structure) and I think it's good for people to talk about that stuff. I suppose like Dezzy said they could have worded it differently to appease people, but in the context that I'm assuming it was meant, I don't really get why it's so offensive.

If they have to explain what they mean by "whiteness" in a flyer, the message of the artwork fails. The continued existence of "white privilege" is disputable in itself, so just calling it racism would have been the best way forward.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

If they have to explain what they mean by "whiteness" in a flyer, the message of the artwork fails. The continued existence of "white privilege" is disputable in itself, so just calling it racism would have been the best way forward.

If it said 'dismantle racism' though I think most people would agree with that and there wouldn't be much of a conversation, just people agreeing at a nice sentiment. And although white privilege has the effect of causing racism, it's still a topic in its own right of which people have a lot of different views and experiences. So I don't see what's wrong with the conversation happening or those people being heard. Like they say, people don't have to agree with the statement. They just want people to think about it.

Also I don't think them explaining what they mean by whiteness means that it fails, the point of the piece isn't to test what people understand the word 'whiteness' to mean. And any art installation in a gallery for example will have a piece of writing attached explaining aspects of it (and it's probably even more necessary when it's something potentially inflammatory where people might get the wrong impression if it's not considered in context).

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

If it said 'dismantle racism' though I think most people would agree with that and there wouldn't be much of a conversation, just people agreeing at a nice sentiment. And although white privilege has the effect of causing racism, it's still a topic in its own right of which people have a lot of different views and experiences. So I don't see what's wrong with the conversation happening or those people being heard. Like they say, people don't have to agree with the statement. They just want people to think about it.

Also I don't think them explaining what they mean by whiteness means that it fails, the point of the piece isn't to test what people understand the word 'whiteness' to mean. And any art installation in a gallery for example will have a piece of writing attached explaining aspects of it (and it's probably even more necessary when it's something potentially inflammatory where people might get the wrong impression if it's not considered in context).

What productive discussions are there to be had about "whiteness" ? White privilege is all-but defunct, and everyone agrees that racism is bad. The only conversations it's sparked so far are about its choice of wording.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What productive discussions are there to be had about "whiteness" ? White privilege is all-but defunct, and everyone agrees that racism is bad. The only conversations it's sparked so far are about its choice of wording.

Not everyone agrees that white privilege is defunct though, so I suppose the conversations would be about that and people making the cases for and against and sharing their experiences. I really don't see the problem in that tbh.
I agree though that talking about the wording is pretty meaningless. Maybe the students on campus are having discussions about what the piece is saying, according to the article the only complaint is that it isn't more prominent.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Not everyone agrees that white privilege is defunct though, so I suppose the conversations would be about that and people making the cases for and against and sharing their experiences. I really don't see the problem in that tbh.
I agree though that talking about the wording is pretty meaningless. Maybe the students on campus are having discussions about what the piece is saying, according to the article the only complaint is that it isn't more prominent.

It should have been focused on equality for all, not attacking a group with a perceived advantage. Its just the wrong message. How can anyone possible describe the sign as art, it is quite clearly a political message and to describe it as art is misleading and disingenuous

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It should have been focused on equality for all, not attacking a group with a perceived advantage. Its just the wrong message. How can anyone possible describe the sign as art, it is quite clearly a political message and to describe it as art is misleading and disingenuous

Indeed.This ‘whiteness’ is in much the same vain as the lefts antisemitism.The idea of the jews holding all the power,Rothschilds and Jewish bankers controling everything.It’s an excuse for racism.This sign is racist and wouldn’t be permitted if it said ‘Blackness’ with a load of stereotypes listed under.
Racism shouldn’t be tolerated from anyone.You don’t get a free pass cos you’re black or ‘progessive’.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's not really meant to be a sign though, isn't it meant to be a piece of art? If that's the case I don't really see the problem with it tbh? I think the point behind it's message is valid (i'm assuming 'whiteness' in terms of a power structure) and I think it's good for people to talk about that stuff. I suppose like Dezzy said they could have worded it differently to appease people, but in the context that I'm assuming it was meant, I don't really get why it's so offensive.

I think the largest issue with this "artwork", that I can see, is that it's reinforcing the increasing proclivity for the young to hate themselves and others on the basis of their white skin. It promotes self-hate. It's relying on the activation of tribalism, to support it's "thesis", while conveniently using contemporary art as a cheap cover to seep into the mainstream. It's teaching young college folk to self-ingrain the message that white == badThingsHappen(); because some of us made the "unfortunate" mistake of being born that particular skin color... nothing else drives this piece.

Racism should be stopped at every doorway. But for whatever reason, the university doors open to those who spread the above, but close it for others who would otherwise oppose (i.e. conservative, libertarian speakers, etc)... racism is still acceptable in our mainstream, as long as it's towards the group that it deems acceptable... that has still not changed... is what this work actually reinforces.

Youtube video

Also, to critique it's artistic credibility.. if you need an accompanying word document to delicately explain it's meaning and actual interpretation because it can't be understood in the original work, then this piece is a failure. There is almost no innovation to a sign. At best, it's Graphic Design... but it's artistic value is down to it's "shock value"... which actually doesn't shock anything, it stealthily reintroduces racist rhetoric onto campuses. If this piece were from a Neo-Nazi or some other non-negotiable political entity, then we would not be debating it's artistic and cultural merits. (Edit) In fact, it would fall under hate speech laws in certain jurisdictions and we would be deconstructing it's narrative and questioning it's actual underlining motives. I truly dislike when contemporary art in this way used as a propaganda tool to fluff up a concept to be more "mysterious" and "content heavy" than it actually is... it's very poorly thought through.

TLDR: Young kids can get away with these faux paux because we all assume because they're young, they're "entitled" to stupidity and it is treated as them simply "expressing themselves". There used to be a higher standard in collegiate environments. I do feel the educational and intellectual standard has been eroded to a large degree from where it used to be, partially so that this type of propaganda and intellectual "dissent" can easily filter through without any opposing proposition or narrative... who better to use as an ideological weapon than a university student. They can get away with a great deal of many things without negative consequences that us average folk across society just couldn't do without risking our job or their livelihood... and that's where the contention here lies.


Anyway, I don't mean to target your post specifically, Jamie, but you bring up an excellent question and it was a good spring board for my thoughts... what could be the problem with art stretching beyond our cultural boundaries? Great question. I think in this case, a vehicle decal or bumper sticker has more intrinsic creative value than this particular piece... whoever came up with this failed massively to promote any kind of meaningful narrative with their work. It only reinforces what both sides already believe... whether they are for or against the narrative of "white privilege"... but discourse on campus (hence the piece saying "off our campus")... is generally accepted when it is one direction only, so I'm not hopeful that it will generate a new kind of meaningful interest or dialogue.

*Edit - A point I forgot to bring into my post earlier.