[Josy]

Originally Posted by Greg!

When? Give an example of any time that a member of the government for Spain or France said they'd block Scotland entering the EU.

Yesterday.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Greg!

When? Give an example of any time that a member of the government for Spain or France said they'd block Scotland entering the EU.

Spain doesn't want its autonomous regions to have any-more oxygen, and they're worried Scotland could do that. Sadly it is the political reality in Spain that would doom any attempt at Scottish Independence within the EU to failure. Spain has a veto on this and would definitely use it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...embership.html

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Hope they say yes this time and go

[Good King Glennceslas]

Although it's not Scotland that's the problem, it's the halfwit troll/goblin/elf in charge. Can't she just go somewhere and not come back.

[Northern Monkey]

The problem is the political parties in Scotland(and England).The Scots are stuck with a nationalist party who's ultimate aim is independence and will do anything they can to get it and forget about what the Scottish people want.The problem is that there's no valid opposition party so the Scottish people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.Just the same as England who are stuck with the Tories until an opposition party appear from somewhere.Sad state of affairs.

[user104658]

Spain is likely to **** up any chance at EU membership simply because they have their own regions who want independence, and they don't want them encouraged.

People get a bit stuck on being "allowed" full EU membership, though. Scotland could quite easily emulate the Denmark route to single market access... the population size / distribution etc. of the two countries is very similar. Denmark has always said that the reason it works for them is because they have a relatively small population and can "piggyback" EU trade laws (they simply alter their own laws to mirror EU law when it comes to trade, as soon as they change in the EU). It actually seems a fairly sensible route for Scotland, IMO.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The problem is the political parties in Scotland(and England).The Scots are stuck with a nationalist party who's ultimate aim is independence and will do anything they can to get it and forget about what the Scottish people want.The problem is that there's no valid opposition party so the Scottish people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.Just the same as England who are stuck with the Tories until an opposition party appear from somewhere.Sad state of affairs.

Whilst I agree, it doesn't seem at all practical for Scotland to remain in the single market when the UK doesn't.

Scottish trade with the rest of the UK is over four times larger than it's trade with the rest of the EU. Scottish exports per year to the UK are around GBP 50 billion - compared to GBP 12 billion to the rest of the EU. Exports to the rest of the UK are over a third of Scottish GBP (GBP 150 billion).

As for May, if she had shown a willingness to engage in discussions with the Scottish Government and its detailed 'Framework Plan' and negotiate in good faith (as promised last June), this present situation would not have arisen. May's been given way too easy a time recently not least by the now dreadfully ineffective Jeremy Corbyn. This, at least, is going to make her work for her money!

[jaxie]

As has already been said both Spain and France have said they would veto Scotland's attempts to join or remain in the EU. I can't honestly see the EU taking them on anyway unless they can get their overspending in check because apparently Scotland has a huge deficit. I mean why would a club take in a country with deficit problems when they are already squeezing the life out of Greece and Spain for the same problems?

Personally leaving the UK for the EU seems rather a betrayal of the idea of independence to me. But good luck to them if they can wangle it. They are going to need it.

As to what Red said above about May's unwillingness to engage with Scotland's framework plan, I think that's a fairly premature thing to accuse her of at this stage. No negotiations have been started, because we've all been faffing about in the courts and the lords. No one really has any notion of what the EU are going to willing to negotiate on apart from the things they've stated in the press, ie no single market, no special treatment for Scotland.

It surprises me really that people don't seem to notice they keep saying no single market so the government have said ok we won't ask for it, instead we'll ask for a free trade agreement. Seems a fairly practical work around to me if the single market is such a huge stumbling block for the EU. A free trade agreement which is basically like being part of the single market seems to save face all round.

One other thing to wonder on if Scotland is going for some sort of piggyback EU deal as TS suggests, what about the currency? I wouldn't have thought it practical if they leave the UK but want to be a part of the EU that keeping the pound is really very practical.

[DemolitionRed]

Lets just remind ourselves that only a few years ago we had all the English-based political parties banding together to convince Scotland to stay in a union... the UK, under the slogan "Better Together" and we convinced the Scots, though by a fairly narrow margin of around 55-45%. Now they turn around and tell Scotland that they can no longer be in a union with the rest of Europe they voted to stay with, basically because English people say so.

There seems to be this underlying belief that however bad the English Govt are they are better for Scotland than any other possibility. If I were a Scot I would likely want to break away from this shadow of a lost empire.

I voted to get out btw but that doesn't mean I can't support Scotland to remain if they so wish.

[Greg!]

"Spain would veto Scotlands membership" is something peddled a lot on here and by unionists in the debate generally. Yet no one from the Spanish government has ever said this was the case, the Spanish PM said that Scotland is a very different situation from Catalonia and the leader MEP from the Spanish ruling party flat out said Scotland WOULDNT be vetoed. It's a myth.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Josy

Yesterday.

Let's see some quotes please

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Greg!

"Spain would veto Scotlands membership" is something peddled a lot on here and by unionists in the debate generally. Yet no one from the Spanish government has ever said this was the case, the Spanish PM said that Scotland is a very different situation from Catalonia and the leader MEP from the Spanish ruling party flat out said Scotland WOULDNT be vetoed. It's a myth.

If you believe that, then you've nothing to worry about.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Let's see some quotes please

Mr Google?

The Spanish have said they would veto Scotland, several times in the press. So have the French.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Let's see some quotes please

You need to provide links as well for some of your claims Greg!

[Greg!]

No one from the Spanish government has ever said they would veto Scotland's membership of the EU. Fact.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You need to provide links as well for some of your claims Greg!

I have, several times

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Mr Google?

The Spanish have said they would veto Scotland, several times in the press. So have the French.

And so has Belgium, Italy and Romania.

Hey Jax!

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Livia

And so has Belgium, Italy and Romania.

Hey Jax!

No they haven't.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Let's see some quotes please

Someone already linked an article about from yesterday...

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Greg!

No they haven't.

If you want to be 'independent' why would you want to be in the EU anyway?

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Greg!

No one from the Spanish government has ever said they would veto Scotland's membership of the EU. Fact.

Yes they have...

[ChristmasNeeve]

The issue of Scotland’s position has already been placed to the fore by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon. The future of Scotland within the UK is a matter for the people of Scotland. However the future of Scotland within the EU should it leave the UK is a matter which concerns all EU states.
I and my party believe that it would be unacceptable for Scotland to be treated as a normal candidate country should it seek to remain as a member of the EU. It currently implements all EU laws. It manifestly would not need to be reviewed for its standards of governance and ability to implement EU laws. It has a strong administration, a distinct legal system and an absolute commitment to European ideals.
Scotland is strong enough to advocate for itself, but Ireland should be its friend and demand fair play should it seek to remain in the EU.
– Statement by Micheál Martin, 27th June 2016

and there's loads more in the link...........

https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress....nds-in-europe/

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Josy

Someone already linked an article about from yesterday...

No Josy, all I've seen on here are links from (mostly) right-wing newspapers with headlines like "Sturgeon DEVESTATED as Spain would block Scotland EU membership." In every one of the articles, it's always said by someone like "the leader of a eurosceptic think tank" or "a former member of an EU policy group", NOT a member of the Spanish government. Because no one from the Spanish government has ever said they would vote against Scotland entering the EU.

[Denver]

France and Spain will take the same attitude as with Turkey if they are elected into the EU they will pull out

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Greg!

No Josy, all I've seen on here are links from (mostly) right-wing newspapers with headlines like "Sturgeon DEVESTATED as Spain would block Scotland EU membership." In every one of the articles, it's always said by someone like "the leader of a eurosceptic think tank" or "a former member of an EU policy group", NOT a member of the Spanish government. Because no one from the Spanish government has ever said they would vote against Scotland entering the EU.

Go Google it with an open mind rather than looking for what you want to see, they have, both recently and during the last referendum..