[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

They're not wrong to be fair, Nicola is trying to have her cake and eat it too... which is why she's stumbling around all over the place. The truth of course is that she knows what the sensible answer is but - like many people - is afraid of being branded transphobic (politically) and more importantly afraid of "aligning with Tories".

Oh yeah for sure but I'm glad that it's all been spelled out so plainly for all to see now and right in proper main stream media. The message is :

If you think male rapists who say they identify as women should not be housed with female prisoners, you are transphobic.

I think that makes the vast majority of the general public transphobic then

[Christmas Dynasnow]

like mosy people she believes trans women are trans women and to "believe" they are real born women is crazy but is too scared to say it

this is where we are with actual political leaders in 2023

[user104658]

The sad irony is that we'd probaby be lightyears ahead on trans rights and safety if it WAS acknowledged that trans women are not women, but people who have chosen to live as women, accepted that for what it is and set about finding innovative solutions for trans people specifically that have nothing to do with trying to shoehorn them into women's spaces and women's rights. Trans people (the ones who were already trans - not the ones who fake it to get into a different prison specifically) genuinely are both;

1) A risk to women in women's prisons, even if non-violent, they are a psychological risk to a building full of captive traumatised women.

but also

2) At significant risk of harm in male prisons.

The real issue is never going to be addressed if we just keep pretending that one or the other "must be" the appropriate decision.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The sad irony is that we'd probaby be lightyears ahead on trans rights and safety if it WAS acknowledged that trans women are not women, but people who have chosen to live as women, accepted that for what it is and set about finding innovative solutions for trans people specifically that have nothing to do with trying to shoehorn them into women's spaces and women's rights. Trans people (the ones who were already trans - not the ones who fake it to get into a different prison specifically) genuinely are both;

1) A risk to women in women's prisons, even if non-violent, they are a psychological risk to a building full of captive traumatised women.

but also

2) At significant risk of harm in male prisons.

The real issue is never going to be addressed if we just keep pretending that one or the other "must be" the appropriate decision.

Yep, the foundations were built on a simple lie "TWAW", forcing people to swallow that lie was never going to be sustainable and we've been saying for years now that trying to make everyone bend to your will like they have been was eventually going to harm genuine trans people, ie those who actually have dysphoria. And it's actually harmed LGB acceptance too which I hate to see.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The sad irony is that we'd probaby be lightyears ahead on trans rights and safety if it WAS acknowledged that trans women are not women, but people who have chosen to live as women, accepted that for what it is and set about finding innovative solutions for trans people specifically that have nothing to do with trying to shoehorn them into women's spaces and women's rights. Trans people (the ones who were already trans - not the ones who fake it to get into a different prison specifically) genuinely are both;

1) A risk to women in women's prisons, even if non-violent, they are a psychological risk to a building full of captive traumatised women.

but also

2) At significant risk of harm in male prisons.

The real issue is never going to be addressed if we just keep pretending that one or the other "must be" the appropriate decision.

Because people and the system are both stupid and tone deaf .

For e.g dressing rooms / changing rooms , this only works if there's individual cubicles with doors & locks . Look at the mess Primark caused.... with mixed gender dressing rooms. All that separated was a curtain . So of course predators took advantage,and tried to harass a woman in there .

As for the bathroom issue, I know some say we have to be careful of misgendering down a slippery slope. I will agree that some masculine women have been mistaken for men in women's bathrooms ...which is really unfortunate for them.

But whether we like it or not , our eyes will always judge a very masculine looking person as 'male' & a very 'feminine' person as female. That's just how our brains work.

And if you identify as the opposite gender, you should atleast make the effort to pass... especially so you don't stick out like a sore thumb . I know not everyone will like that but it's socially a fact . A man with a beard and a wig walking into a woman's bathroom...is going to make other women uncomfortable.

Also I think there should be more disabled / stand alone toilets. I go to a office building that is mixed gender toilets ,but it's like going to a disabled toilet. You have your own space . Same with coffee shops etc. The only thing I hate is when some men leave the toilet seat up .

As for the prison argument , if you're clearly exploiting a loophole and only 'transitioned' after you've committed a crime / been arrested and you're a 'trans woman' . Then straight in the men's prison you go. Also another thing which will make sense is to have an entirely different wing and block with just trans prisoners, so that other prisoners feel safe .

[Alf]

Youtube video

[ChristmasNeeve]

TWAW except for........



So this guy see's Transwomen as real women when it comes to playing against women in sport, getting undressed with women in changing rooms, giving intimate exams/searches to or on women, when they commit violent crimes and are housed in womens prisons................but not when it comes to him actually dating one no no no that's too far. Basically they're real women when it effects women but not when it effects men. Got it.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Yet although gender-critical feminists are winning public opinion, major changes
often happen with no need for legislation, and in spite of the collapse of self-ID
arguments. Well before the GRR bill, the Scottish Prison Service’s policy on
trans inmates was already effectively gender self-ID. Semantics frequently
trump physical reality. In a particularly harrowing case that Baroness Nicholson
of Winterbourne raised in the Lords last year, staff at a hospital were accused of
obstructing police investigating an alleged rape on a single-sex ward, insisting,
despite CCTV evidence to the contrary, that the rape “could not have happened”
because the victim’s alleged attacker was trans and, according to the legal
definition, a rape can only be carried out by a physically intact man.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ing-real-time/

[Cherry Christmas]

staff at a hospital were accused of
obstructing police investigating an alleged rape on a single-sex ward, insisting,
despite CCTV evidence to the contrary, that the rape “could not have happened”
because the victim’s alleged attacker was trans and, according to the legal
definition, a rape can only be carried out by a physically intact man.


Very early on in this debate I pointed out female patients could be at risk but I was laughed at.... sad that it has come to this

It won't be long before some man enters a womans refuge and kills his partner

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yet although gender-critical feminists are winning public opinion, major changes
often happen with no need for legislation, and in spite of the collapse of self-ID
arguments. Well before the GRR bill, the Scottish Prison Service’s policy on
trans inmates was already effectively gender self-ID. Semantics frequently
trump physical reality. In a particularly harrowing case that Baroness Nicholson
of Winterbourne raised in the Lords last year, staff at a hospital were accused of
obstructing police investigating an alleged rape on a single-sex ward, insisting,
despite CCTV evidence to the contrary, that the rape “could not have happened”
because the victim’s alleged attacker was trans and, according to the legal
definition, a rape can only be carried out by a physically intact man.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ing-real-time/

That's actually Orwellian

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Youtube video

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Nicola Sturgeon has undermined her own self-identification gender scheme
after she refused three times to say a transgender rapist who claims to be a
woman was female.


Douglas Ross, the Scottish Tory leader, argued that rape could only be
committed by a man and repeatedly challenged the First Minister over whether
she agreed with her Justice Secretary that Isla Bryson was a woman.


The First Minister insisted she "does not have enough information" to make a
decision despite agreeing that the double rapist was "almost certainly" only
claiming to be transgender as an "easy way out".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...gender-rapist/

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Nicola Sturgeon has undermined her own self-identification gender scheme
after she refused three times to say a transgender rapist who claims to be a
woman was female.


Douglas Ross, the Scottish Tory leader, argued that rape could only be
committed by a man and repeatedly challenged the First Minister over whether
she agreed with her Justice Secretary that Isla Bryson was a woman.


The First Minister insisted she "does not have enough information" to make a
decision despite agreeing that the double rapist was "almost certainly" only
claiming to be transgender as an "easy way out".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...gender-rapist/

To be fair I actually don't know where the idea that the definition says it must be a man comes from... it's actually not true. The legal definition is that it has to involve a penis -- it doesn't actually specify that it can't be "a woman's penis" so if legally a woman can have a penis, then legally a woman can absolutely be guilty of rape.

In practice of course it absolutely decimates decades of crime statistics and renders them functionally meaningless.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Nicola Sturgeon has undermined her own self-identification gender scheme
after she refused three times to say a transgender rapist who claims to be a
woman was female.


Douglas Ross, the Scottish Tory leader, argued that rape could only be
committed by a man and repeatedly challenged the First Minister over whether
she agreed with her Justice Secretary that Isla Bryson was a woman.


The First Minister insisted she "does not have enough information" to make a
decision despite agreeing that the double rapist was "almost certainly" only
claiming to be transgender as an "easy way out".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...gender-rapist/

She can’t believe they are female otherwise they would be in a female prison...the woman is nuts

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Cherie

She can’t believe they are female otherwise they would be in a female prison...the woman is nuts

just like Starmer

terrified to alienate a tiny minority of 20-year-old screaming men and pink haired girls

sickening

dont vote for these simps people

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Youtube video

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Youtube video

Oh my what a victim he is

[bots]

i think what's obvious is that the issues are not going away and the various voices are just going to get louder and louder. I think it's going to get a lot nastier before positive strides are taken

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Another spineless politician pretending to be woke

Youtube video

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Another spineless politician pretending to be woke

Youtube video

Why are they wasting time and resources risk assessing sexually violent men who now identify as women to see if they are suitable for womens prisons ..that is barmy ...

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Why are they wasting time and resources risk assessing sexually violent men who now identify as women to see if they are suitable for womens prisons ..that is barmy ...

Yup, just put them in their respective prisons' Vulnerable Prisoners' Unit or whatever they're called.

Giving even more bandwidth to this in parliamentary time helps no-one.

[bots]

it seems that Sturgeon is prepared to put the future of the whole snp party on this issue. The party has been told that anyone that doesnt support the SNP's gender reforms is not welcome in the party and should leave

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it seems that Sturgeon is prepared to put the future of the whole snp party on this issue. The party has been told that anyone that doesnt support the SNP's gender reforms is not welcome in the party and should leave

They're too far down a narrow road to do a U turn.

[Parmy]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-paedophile-charter/

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by parmnion

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-paedophile-charter/

Worth a thread of its own tbh