[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Yup. Having Dale, Shane, Lori and T-Dog all dead within a few episodes of each other (although they were different seasons) wasn't the best move.

Originally Posted by Cal.

Then Merle and Andrea within quick succession too at the end of the season 3. A mess

I always liked that, reinforced the stakes.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Cal.

Then Merle and Andrea within quick succession too at the end of the season 3. A mess

And then no one from the Atlanta camp died for a solid 3 seasons and then a season and a half later they killed two (arguably 5) more Atlanta members

Wasn't Merle supposed to be in season 4 too? Wonder what changed that

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

Wasn't Merle supposed to be in season 4 too? Wonder what changed that

Marvel.

GotG vol 1 would have been filming / screening / promoting at the same time as TWD season 4.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Marvel.

GotG vol 1 would have been filming / screening / promoting at the same time as TWD season 4.

He was much better in GotG tbf

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

He was much better in GotG tbf

Also paid significantly more I'm pretty sure . Especially the expanded role in vol 2.

[Cal.]

It’s weird because I view the Atlanta and farm survivors as the ‘main’ TWD group when the ‘main’ group is more like Michonne, Tara, Rosita, Sasha, Abraham, Eugene, Aaron etc.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cal.

It’s weird because I view the Atlanta and farm survivors as the ‘main’ TWD group when the ‘main’ group is more like Michonne, Tara, Rosita, Sasha, Abraham, Eugene, Aaron etc.

i luv Sonequa now on star trek discovery almost just as good as when she played Sasha on TWD

[Babayaro.]

Man, T-Dog couldn't even get his own death to himself It just had to be overshadowed by Lori's.

[Babayaro.]

Ok I nearly cried at Lori's death/Rick's reaction

[Jordan.]

Raise of hands who finds Dwight sexy

[Lostie!]

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

[Ant.]

I think Season 2 is so poorly received because there's no immediate threat? The main conflict for the first half of S2 is looking for Sophia and let's be serious, the possibility of an abused mother losing the last part of her family is dark and awful and I could never fathom what Carol had to go through.
That said, it's not 'threatening'. Especially as Sophia barely spoke and most of us had no real attachment to her. And besides, what were the outcomes? She lives, the group remains as normal. She dies, they will mourn and they'll carry on as if one of their own had died. Essentially, the first half of S2 had no threat, which I doubt people didn't enjoy from an apocalyptic show.

Then the second half came along and I'd argue Shane became more and more the 'villain' post-Sophia's death. But at the same time, it wasn't as if he was a threat either? He was just super pissed off at Rick, but I highly doubt he would put his group at risk. He was just volatile and developed a mindset and view of the world that the group would later develop in a few seasons. I'd honestly argue that Lizzie was a better 'villain' than Shane (even though Shane was a massive dick and was awful to Lori once Rick returned, these never contributed to how threatening he was to the group, whereas Lizzie was willing to kill her own sister and a baby).
Of course, S2 did develop a threat in the finale with the massive horde, and it made for, what I argue is the best Season finale of TWD. But that was only for one episode

And then you compare that to the other seasons.

Spoiler:

Yes, Season 1 had no villain, but the threat of walkers, the camp being attacked, and a purpose (the CDC) all contributed to a drama Season 2 never had.
Season 3 had the Governor, the return of Merle, the realisation that there were other communities. Plus a lot of death.
Season 4, again had the Governor as a threat, and the virus in 4a. A lot of people seem to dislike 4b and that's when those two elements were taken out. With no threat and rather focussing on the group and their relationships, I would compare 4b to Season 2, and that's why both are generally disliked. Yes Terminus was a bad place but we found that out at the end
5a had the mystery of Beth's location, and 5b had finding Alexandria. Can't forget that this season did have a few deaths too.
6a had the horde, resulting in the best MSP of the series so far (No Way Out :love) while 6b established how big the world really was, and the Saviors.
Season 7 was pretty much about the repercussions of the season 6 finale, which was enough to fuel the Season
and 8a has had the war going on

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

Then the second half came along and I'd argue Shane became more and more the 'villain' post-Sophia's death. But at the same time, it wasn't as if he was a threat either? He was just super pissed off at Rick, but I highly doubt he would put his group at risk. He was just volatile and developed a mindset and view of the world that the group would later develop in a few seasons.

Shane didn't care about the group by that point, he cared about Lori and Carl (in a really unhealthy way) and would have sacrificed any of the others if he felt the need. A guy that's willing to murder his best friend so he can have his family is definitely dangerous

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Shane didn't care about the group by that point, he cared about Lori and Carl (in a really unhealthy way) and would have sacrificed any of the others if he felt the need. A guy that's willing to murder his best friend so he can have his family is definitely dangerous

I can see where you're coming from, but he definitely didn't feel like a threat. What situation would Shane have to be in to sacrifice them in such a peaceful place as the farm? If they were at the prison or on the road when he was in more danger, then yes, maybe, but I guess I just never felt like he would ever do damage since well, he had no reason too

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

I can see where you're coming from, but he definitely didn't feel like a threat. What situation would Shane have to be in to sacrifice them in such a peaceful place as the farm? If they were at the prison or on the road when he was in more danger, then yes, maybe, but I guess I just never felt like he would ever do damage since well, he had no reason too

But the farm was never gonna stay peaceful, as we saw when the horde arrived. If he was still alive when that happened, I could easily see him doing what he did to Otis to any of the others to save himself and Lori and Carl. I did think there was a significant level of threat throughout the season because I felt like if he wants his best friend dead, clearly any of the others who he barely knows in comparison are fair game if the need ever arose.

And honestly, I don't think Lori herself would have been completely safe if she kept rejecting him considering that time he nearly forced himself on her.

[Babayaro.]

He probably would've tried to kill Dale too, had that walker not got there first.

[Babayaro.]

He was the one to open the barn and release all the walkers, so that kinda put the group in danger (even though they dealt with it easily)

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

He was the one to open the barn and release all the walkers, so that kinda put the group in danger (even though they dealt with it easily)

Oh I lowkey forgot about that

But yeah as you said it was dealt with easy and I just didn't really feel... scared for them? They could've easy just ran away they were all at a fine enough distance if somehow they got overwhelmed

Like I'm not denying that the man wasn't a danger (I mean I was but when I said it I didn't explain that I didn't believe he was on par with any of the other threats) and he DEFINITELY got what was coming to him but when I was watching I was just more thinking "god can he just go he's so ****ing creepy towards Lori and Carl" rather than "he has to go for the safety of the group "
I think I may need a rewatch to evaluate my opinion on him again

[Lostie!]

And in terms of comparing villains, someone like Negan might be bigger in threat and scope but I much preferred Shane as an antagonist. He felt more real, and more unnerving as a result. Negan's way too over the top and cartoonish.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

But the farm was never gonna stay peaceful, as we saw when the horde arrived. If he was still alive when that happened, I could easily see him doing what he did to Otis to any of the others to save himself and Lori and Carl.

And honestly, I don't think Lori herself would have been completely safe if she kept rejecting him considering that time he nearly forced himself on her.

Oh no as I said, if he stayed he would've been a MASSIVE threat to the group. But in that time and place, I didn't fear for the group, and it's not as if we had reason to in the moment

He DEFINITELY had issues with Lori and what's scary is that he forced himself onto Lori before he was even bad (or that bad) even while she was saying no. There was absolutely no doubt that he would've hurt Lori sometime

Originally Posted by Lostie!

And in terms of comparing villains, someone like Negan might be bigger in threat and scope but I much preferred Shane as an antagonist. He felt more real, and more unnerving as a result. Negan's way too over the top and cartoonish.

I was actually writing a post about this but I didn't find it relevant. Shane came across as a man who fell in love with his best friend's wife and found a family within 2 months of an apocalypse, and while I do think it's a tad weird he got that possessive in a short space of time, we don't know much about Lori and Shane's relationship before the apocalypse. And obviously the apocalypse and the doom of it all would certainly heighten the situation.
The fact he (rightfully) lost all of that and had to see his best friend play happy family with the family he found and lost (I completely disagree with Shane's actions and I don't believe he could "find" Carl or Lori as a family within 2 months) must have really damaged him. And we see that.
And as awful as Shane is, with some things, you can certainly think, "oh **** I get his point" at times. And he's absolutely over the top and crazy, but you don't laugh it off or think "how panto", you realise he's struggling and very real with real emotions that ****ed with his head.

The Governor was somewhat good in this sense when you consider the fact he lost his daughter and we got to see this unravel and how it affected him, but Shane's development and the fact we saw him derail in front of our eyes make me prefer Shane

Negan though? It's the things I hear he does that scare me (lining up every man above the age of 11 and shooting them in the head, beating a teenage boy to death for no reason but to make a point, and everything that's implied with his wives. Oh and of course the Lucille thing is horrifying and as is the face ironing but that's it), not who he is. His personality is just over the time and he's supposed to be comedic yet it just doesn't work...

And the worst thing of it all is that his story doesn't make me feel anything. He was a cheat, and yes he shown remorse for it, but I just couldn't care less that a murdering r*pist dictator feels bad that he hurt his dying wife's emotions and trust.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

And in terms of comparing villains, someone like Negan might be bigger in threat and scope but I much preferred Shane as an antagonist. He felt more real, and more unnerving as a result. Negan's way too over the top and cartoonish.

The problem with Negan is IRL people would just put a gun to his head and he would be dealt with, especially considering he basically forced alot of people to join him. Where as with Shane if Lori wasn't around he would've been a more enjoyable character to see go crazy.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

And in terms of comparing villains, someone like Negan might be bigger in threat and scope but I much preferred Shane as an antagonist. He felt more real, and more unnerving as a result. Negan's way too over the top and cartoonish.

..I really wish Shane as a character had been kept in because I think that ‘rivalry’ between him and Rick could have sustained much longer in creating interest...also obviously it was all Lori’s fault for her infidelity, Shane was a complete innocent and just misunderstood.....

...hmmm, I don’t actually think that Negan is a big threat as such because I agree with Carl, in that why do they have to ‘defend’, why don’t they just leave because leaving would preserve more life...so rather than becoming involved in a war situation in the all banding together of groups...surely it would be for all groups to ‘escape’ and leave Negan’s hold and control..I mean, the war is just causing deaths of the non infected, when surely the aim in a situation like that is to preserve the non infected...even, preserving Negan and his group but just not being part of his control and his cruelty...(...obviously Shane would have seen all of that and so preserved many lives, but they decided to see him off, the rats....)...I also think grieving, avenging/revenge etc in that world wouldn’t be the same as we feel with these things and it would have to be moved on from quite quickly in self preservation, so it’s all too much time being taken up with Negan...because he killed two of the main characters, I guess...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

And in terms of comparing villains, someone like Negan might be bigger in threat and scope but I much preferred Shane as an antagonist. He felt more real, and more unnerving as a result. Negan's way too over the top and cartoonish.

absolutely, Negan is pretty ridiculous

[user104658]

Shane would have ended up making an amazing villain if they'd had him leave / be forced out instead of killed, then returning in a later season with his own group, maybe even as a Negan-style character (but more angry and less trollish). Although that said, they would have been taking a gamble as they wouldn't be able to hold the actor in a contract and would be relying on him being available to film, and he's done loads since TWD.

He was never really a full on villain at all... he did have an unhealthy connection with Lori and Carl (but for perfectly understandable reasons) but his main issue was that he saw Rick as weak and was scared that he would get them killed. It was supposed to be a major irony that after Shane's death, Rick actually came round to Shane's way of thinking pretty quickly... e.g. Rick was furious about Shane letting Carl practice using a handgun... then by the end of S3 Carl was toting an assault rifle with Rick's permission. And Rick has done a load of ruthless things in the name of keeping the group safe. The funny thing being, if Shane had seen Rick a couple of seasons later he probably wouldn't have had the same fears. He'd still have been jelly, but I don't think he would have wanted Rick gone.