[Niamh.]

This whole time travel business just confuses me

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Nice work Bran

Although surely the fact that Hodor is Hodor meant that all that had to happen so Bran messing up his training and luring the white walkers there is basically inevitable

Must be because it was the three eyed raven who told him to warg into Hodor so he obviously knew that was how it was supposed to go and was probably the reason why he looked worried when Ned heard him at the Tower of Joy scene because maybe that wasn't supposed to happen?

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

omg that is the worst storyline I ever heard Smithy

also re the Dire Wolves, that would be a terrible reason to start killing the Wolves off, surely they can't kill them off in the show unless GRRM does the same in the books?

Well loads of characters in the show are dead that aren't in the books so I don't think it matters about the wolves

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Well loads of characters in the show are dead that aren't in the books so I don't think it matters about the wolves

The wolves are more important than most of the people though

[user104658]

They can't kill off Ghost!!

Also, Arya's dire wolf is presumably still alive somewhere, too.

As for the time travel... hopefully they make it "unproblematic" time travel at least (major events are set, you can't change the timeline). Once you stray into the territory of time manipulation things just get too messy and plotlines end up all over the place. One might suggest that the series of events for Bran and Hodor were always as they turned out, Hodor (Willis) was always there with them with the only difference being that he could speak (he was always a bit simple... it wouldn't have made a huge difference to his personality... haha), Bran always warged into him and he always died ho'ding the dor. The "time travel" didn't really change anything other than creating a sort of feedback loop, Bran warging into adult Hodor and young Willis at the same time, allowing Willis to experience his death in the future and breaking his mind a little.

They sort of went into this in a recent "Legends of Tomorrow" (in which the time travel is a shambles tbh...) by saying that it's very difficult to actually change time, it wants to go where it's going, like a river. You can throw in rocks and make a ripple, even build a dam to try to block it, but at the end of the day the river will make its way back to flowing where it was always going to flow.

OR the whole thing could end with Bran going back in time thousands of years and fixing everything

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They can't kill off Ghost!!

Also, Arya's dire wolf is presumably still alive somewhere, too.

As for the time travel... hopefully they make it "unproblematic" time travel at least (major events are set, you can't change the timeline). Once you stray into the territory of time manipulation things just get too messy and plotlines end up all over the place. One might suggest that the series of events for Bran and Hodor were always as they turned out, Hodor (Willis) was always there with them with the only difference being that he could speak (he was always a bit simple... it wouldn't have made a huge difference to his personality... haha), Bran always warged into him and he always died ho'ding the dor. The "time travel" didn't really change anything other than creating a sort of feedback loop, Bran warging into adult Hodor and young Willis at the same time, allowing Willis to experience his death in the future and breaking his mind a little.

They sort of went into this in a recent "Legends of Tomorrow" (in which the time travel is a shambles tbh...) by saying that it's very difficult to actually change time, it wants to go where it's going, like a river. You can throw in rocks and make a ripple, even build a dam to try to block it, but at the end of the day the river will make its way back to flowing where it was always going to flow.

OR the whole thing could end with Bran going back in time thousands of years and fixing everything

Or Bran is the reason why things are so ****ed up to begin with. It could be that the Mad King became the Mad King because of Bran's shenanigans.

[Niamh.]

I just read someones theory that maybe Bran didn't necessarily cause Hodor to become Hodor by warging him in the past but maybe Hodor was a greenseer and was able to see the vision of his own death at that time and that caused him to lose his mind, I think I prefer that theory than the changing the past from the future bit

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Or Bran is the reason why things are so ****ed up to begin with. It could be that the Mad King became the Mad King because of Bran's shenanigans.

Yeah I read that somewhere, I don't like the idea of that, that basically Bran is responsible for everyone dying and all the wars etc, that's horrible

[Firewire]

Isn't the Mad King Mad because he heard Bran which drove him Mad?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Isn't the Mad King Mad because he heard Bran which drove him Mad?

It's a fan theory, it's not actually confirmed as being true though. I hope it's not true

[Tom4784]

I suppose it could be a situation in which the Mad King was the lesser of two evils. Perhaps Bran's power grows to a point in which he can not only affect the past but see what happens in different timelines.

[Shaun]

Is it just me that's struggling to remember half of this universe atm? I don't remember anything about the Mad King but then I'm only a show-watcher rather than a book-reader.

The reintroduction of the Greyjoys, revisiting the Dothraki, Sansa being told the blackfish was back... all of it's pretty much going over my head. WHAT IS A BLACK FISH. WHO. WHERE AM I?

[Niamh.]

Yeah I think if you're not a book reader it's harder to hold onto all the more historical characters stories. I regularly have to pause the show and give Gavin a quick rundown of who is who and who they're related to and what that persons story is etc

[Niamh.]

oh and Shaun the Blackfish is Brynden Tully, Catelyns uncle

The Mad King, is Danys dad, he got extremely paranoid in his later years as ruler and wanted to burn everything. He killed Neds brother and father

[Firewire]

I'm not a book reader either so don't grasp on to a lot of it but surprisingly I knew Blackfish and the Mad King

[Tom4784]

I only read the first book tbh.

[user104658]

I'm not a book reader but, as with everything I watch (plus Marvel / DC etc.) I am an avid Wikipedia reader . I find I get a lot more out of shows like Game of Thrones if I throw in a bit of Wikipedia research after each episode. There are also a couple of dedicated GoT wiki's. They point out things like the differences between the show and the books, too, which can be interesting.

[Niamh.]

I used to always try to convince people to read the books because they're so good but it looks less and less likely that GRRM is even going to finish the series these days

[Scarlett.]

For the first time I'm actually up to date with GoT xD

Also, awkward moment

Youtube video

[Smithy]

Apparently

Spoiler:

Benjen Stark

is back this week

[Firewire]

Idkher

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Idkher

Spoiler:

hes the stark kids uncle from episode one, who was a ranger, he took Jon to the wall with him and went missing in like episode 3 and hasn't been seen sincd

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Apparently

Spoiler:

Benjen Stark

is back this week

I'd like to know where he has been

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just read someones theory that maybe Bran didn't necessarily cause Hodor to become Hodor by warging him in the past but maybe Hodor was a greenseer and was able to see the vision of his own death at that time and that caused him to lose his mind, I think I prefer that theory than the changing the past from the future bit

this is what I thought happened when I watched the episode

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Apparently

Spoiler:

Benjen Stark

is back this week

As an adult or just in flashbacks again?

If it's as an adult, then the two options are that either he's been surviving north of the wall and will join up with / protect Bran now that Hodor is Hodding Dors in Hodor heaven... OR... he's a white walker.