[Ammi]

...actually wouldn't Jessie's have showed 'deception indicated' anyway just because he was so confused in his statement and that's what makes his whole statement so unreliable...it was first between 5-6pm but then changed to around noon...(a huge difference in time..)...but then when he was told that they would be in school at noon, he then said between 6-7pm because it was getting dark at the time...so how could it ever have been confused to being noon..?...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think that they thought he was lying when he said that he had no part in ...but it did brush over it like it was such an unimportant/trivial bit ...they really had no evidence at all hen you think about it...Aaron and Jessy being completely unreliable witnesses and no DNA or anything else...(and yes, what you said...I hope that much of it was done after the children were dead.....)...


...oh actually did we cover the pen knife that Pam Hobbs found after she started to suspect Terry as a possibility..?...that had been given to Stevie by his granddad and that he always had with him..she was certain that he would have had it that day and she found it in the attack in a toolbox thing that Terry had, so how did he have it....

Do we know what the timeline on that is? In Devils Knot, they made it seem like Pam found it right after the trial and then she left Terry but I'm sure she was married to Terry for years after, odd that she would stay with him whilst thinking he murdered her child

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't see Jason on that list either

..and that would make absolutely no sense at all, to polygraph two suspects but not the third one so some must be missing from that list and why would that be.../odd...

[Niamh.]

Also, I like Jason alot, more than most of the people involved in the case. He really comes across as genuine to me

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Do we know what the timeline on that is? In Devils Knot, they made it seem like Pam found it right after the trial and then she left Terry but I'm sure she was married to Terry for years after, odd that she would stay with him whilst thinking he murdered her child

..I'm not entirely sure of the timeline during the trail or afterwards from the movie...but she found it during the trial when she started to feel that Terry was just enjoying the limelight with reporters ..(and in the movie..)...she showed it to the investigator that the defence had hired..(which was Colin Firth..)..just after the trial...it then showed her leaving Terry/taking her things from the house and driving away but it didn't at what the time that had lapsed in between.../just that she carried on in her quest for the truth...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also, I like Jason alot, more than most of the people involved in the case. He really comes across as genuine to me

..I honestly don't know, I mean we'll never know probably...(and awwww, Jessie just didn't want any media attention at all and went back to construction at home..)...is it awful though to say that even if they were found to be guilty/conclusively and such an evil crime...?..that they seem rehabilitated now because they were barely children themselves at the time, so I would still think it right that they were released...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm not entirely sure of the timeline during the trail or afterwards from the movie...but she found it during the trial when she started to feel that Terry was just enjoying the limelight with reporters ..(and in the movie..)...she showed it to the investigator that the defence had hired..(which was Colin Firth..)..just after the trial...it then showed her leaving Terry/taking her things from the house and driving away but it didn't at what the time that had lapsed in between.../just that she carried on in her quest for the truth...

This sounds like it was soon after the murders but I'm sure she was with him for years afterwards, this is another reason why I find her very unreliable

17. Additionally, after the Murders my sister Jo Lynn McCauhey and I found in Terry's nightstand a knife that Stevie carried with him constantly and which I had believed was with him when he died. It was a pocket knife that my father had given to Stevie, and Stevie loved that knife. I had been shocked that the police did not find it with Stevie when they found his body. I had always assumed that my son's murderer had taken the knife during the crime. I could not believe it was in Terry's things. He had never told me that he had it.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/p_hobbs_declaration1.html

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I honestly don't know, I mean we'll never know probably...(and awwww, Jessie just didn't want any media attention at all and went back to construction at home..)...is it awful though to say that even if they were found to be guilty/conclusively and such an evil crime...?..that they seem rehabilitated now because they were barely children themselves at the time, so I would still think it right that they were released...

Oh God, no, I would be so the opposite on that one Ammi, no way. Why should anyone who took away the lives of 3 little boys ever be given a second chance? rehabilitated or not?

[Vicky.]

PDAs. Was reminded of a pretty grim night at work featuring one of these by a thread on here.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...CeeCee/Niamh...also, Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left the town just 4 days after the children were killed..?...Chris suffered from blackouts and memory losses at the time with drug abuse and didn't their polygraph tests come back dodgy...

Reading up abit on them now, Bobby Deangelo was the guy who apparently asked for a photo of Stevie, he visited Pam & Terrys the day after the boys were found with Chris Morgan, these 2 are suspicious I think

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...d#.V_JC8_krJMw

[Ammi]

...^^...I'll see what I can find about those three later../Brian Holland as well...


...I'm just watching West of Memphis atm...

Spoiler:

..I thought that I should spoiler this...what I don't understand is the turtles/wildlife in the river and the area...it makes sense what they say and how the mutilations could have happened but once those images were planted/described etc ...then it built up horrendous torture, which led to 'satanic/evil'...but one of the big things with the trial was that cuts had been done with such precision and that was by an expert witness and saying that it was someone who had knife skills/type thing...the skinning of the genitals/penis...so how could he have got it so wrong if it was turtles biting...?..it just doesn't make sense at all...he was an expert witness...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...not sure if I actually saw Jason take one but Damien definitely did because I saw it on one of the vids..it didn't show the actual questioning though, just him wired up to the polygraph machine in the interview room...

Found this on Jason and the Polygraph

I'm fairly certain he did not...his mom gave him specific instructions to not talk to the police, as she knew the police were investigating Jason and according to her, telling others teenagers that Jason was in the "cult", etc..etc...that's why he didn't make an official statement once he was arrested and why he didn't take a poly.

If am I not mistaken, the only time Jason spoke with the police is when a couple of officers approached Jason and Damien outside Jason's residence and asked them the items that were on the questionnaire.........

May I ask why you are interested in the poly's and who passed/failed?

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...s#.V_JlIfkrJMw

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...^^...I'll see what I can find about those three later../Brian Holland as well...


...I'm just watching West of Memphis atm...

Spoiler:

..I thought that I should spoiler this...what I don't understand is the turtles/wildlife in the river and the area...it makes sense what they say and how the mutilations could have happened but once those images were planted/described etc ...then it built up horrendous torture, which led to 'satanic/evil'...but one of the big things with the trial was that cuts had been done with such precision and that was by an expert witness and saying that it was someone who had knife skills/type thing...the skinning of the genitals/penis...so how could he have got it so wrong if it was turtles biting...?..it just doesn't make sense at all...he was an expert witness...

I don't know really Ammi, I think that particular witness was state chosen though. I guess they're saying that that witness was saying what the prosecution wanted him to?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Found this on Jason and the Polygraph

I'm fairly certain he did not...his mom gave him specific instructions to not talk to the police, as she knew the police were investigating Jason and according to her, telling others teenagers that Jason was in the "cult", etc..etc...that's why he didn't make an official statement once he was arrested and why he didn't take a poly.

If am I not mistaken, the only time Jason spoke with the police is when a couple of officers approached Jason and Damien outside Jason's residence and asked them the items that were on the questionnaire.........

May I ask why you are interested in the poly's and who passed/failed?

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...s#.V_JlIfkrJMw

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't know really Ammi, I think that particular witness was state chosen though. I guess they're saying that that witness was saying what the prosecution wanted him to?

...I am starting to have thoughts now similar to the Avery/Dassey case that the police and investigators may have genuinely thought that they were guilty but may have slanted the whole case and evidence etc to ensure much less chance of them being found innocent by the jury.../that they just couldn't risk it..?...so corruption there as well possibly...it still doesn't mean that they didn't do it if their arrests and trial were tampered with though so this is the rub../I keep swinging back and forth...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I am starting to have thoughts now similar to the Avery/Dassey case that the police and investigators may have genuinely thought that they were guilty but may have slanted the whole case and evidence etc to ensure much less chance of them being found innocent by the jury.../that they just couldn't risk it..?...so corruption there as well possibly...it still doesn't mean that they didn't do it if their arrests and trial were tampered with though so this is the rub../I keep swinging back and forth...

I'm trying to think of what actual evidence they have on Jason and Damien besides Jessies confession (which wasn't allowed to be brought up at their trial because he recanted it and wouldn't testify which is also a weird likeness to the Avery/Dassey case) There's talk of blue candle wax found on one of the boys shirts that matched similar blue candles found in Damien's room but I can't really figure out if this is true or not

ETA : Re The Candle wax

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...1#.V_Jum_krJMw

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm trying to think of what actual evidence they have on Jason and Damien besides Jessies confession (which wasn't allowed to be brought up at their trial because he recanted it and wouldn't testify which is also a weird likeness to the Avery/Dassey case) There's talk of blue candle wax found on one of the boys shirts that matched similar blue candles found in Damien's room but I can't really figure out if this is true or not

ETA : Re The Candle wax

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...1#.V_Jum_krJMw

...I found this on the candle wax, they said that they found some on one of the children's shirts...but they were specifically looking for links to a satanic killing../Damien had been asked what would be present at a satanic killing and he had told them some things, candles being one of those things...but had they really found some though../was it more a determination to find something/anything to link Satanism...


http://www.jivepuppi.com/wax.html


...Amanda, Stevie's sister.....just tragic for her life as well...

...just going back to Stevie's penknife and the timeline that you mentioned earlier...?...it didn't show in the movie that she had 'found' that in his stuff when she and Terry's marriage broke down and she was about to leave him...and I imagine much bitterness, so maybe she was purposefully trying to incriminate him...?...his explanation seemed reasonable of taking it from Stevie because he felt he was too young to have it...(not because he was being a responsible parent or for any concern..)...but he could have taken it our of spite and to 'punish' Stevie for something...?...he really is quite brutal and quite disturbing...and there are huge doubts about his timelines with his friend, David Jacobi...(but brutal and disturbing still don't necessarily make killer...)...this is all starting to look really different though...(now I'm getting convinced of their innocence..)....



...ahhhh this though in West of Memphis..

Youtube video

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...^^...I'll see what I can find about those three later../Brian Holland as well...


...I'm just watching West of Memphis atm...

Spoiler:

..I thought that I should spoiler this...what I don't understand is the turtles/wildlife in the river and the area...it makes sense what they say and how the mutilations could have happened but once those images were planted/described etc ...then it built up horrendous torture, which led to 'satanic/evil'...but one of the big things with the trial was that cuts had been done with such precision and that was by an expert witness and saying that it was someone who had knife skills/type thing...the skinning of the genitals/penis...so how could he have got it so wrong if it was turtles biting...?..it just doesn't make sense at all...he was an expert witness...

Wow Chris Morgan told Police that he may have blacked out and killed the boys and asked for a hypnotist :/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I found this on the candle wax, they said that they found some on one of the children's shirts...but they were specifically looking for links to a satanic killing../Damien had been asked what would be present at a satanic killing and he had told them some things, candles being one of those things...but had they really found some though../was it more a determination to find something/anything to link Satanism...


http://www.jivepuppi.com/wax.html


...Amanda, Stevie's sister.....just tragic for her life as well...

...just going back to Stevie's penknife and the timeline that you mentioned earlier...?...it didn't show in the movie that she had 'found' that in his stuff when she and Terry's marriage broke down and she was about to leave him...and I imagine much bitterness, so maybe she was purposefully trying to incriminate him...?...his explanation seemed reasonable of taking it from Stevie because he felt he was too young to have it...(not because he was being a responsible parent or for any concern..)...but he could have taken it our of spite and to 'punish' Stevie for something...?...he really is quite brutal and quite disturbing...and there are huge doubts about his timelines with his friend, David Jacobi...(but brutal and disturbing still don't necessarily make killer...)...this is all starting to look really different though...(now I'm getting convinced of their innocence..)....



...ahhhh this though in West of Memphis..

Youtube video

I love Eddie so much

Yeah, thing about it is Terry has a nasty history but so does Mark Byers and Damien was in and out of mental Institutes, none of that proves that any of them were responsible for this though

I'm really leaning towards Chris Morgan/Holland maybe DeAngelo. I know the whole of Aarons statement was probably BS but what if it wasn't, what if he was telling the truth except he was pushed into saying it was Damien when it wasn't? He said the men were having sex with eachother and Morgan admitted to having atleast 1 homosexual encounter in the past

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I love Eddie so much

Yeah, thing about it is Terry has a nasty history but so does Mark Byers and Damien was in and out of mental Institutes, none of that proves that any of them were responsible for this though

I'm really leaning towards Chris Morgan/Holland maybe DeAngelo. I know the whole of Aarons statement was probably BS but what if it wasn't, what if he was telling the truth except he was pushed into saying it was Damien when it wasn't? He said the men were having sex with eachother and Morgan admitted to having atleast 1 homosexual encounter in the past

...yeah I just keep swaying with this one because it's also so plausible with Terry/that he accidently killed him when he was punishing him and then had to cover it up by killing the other two children...Terry breaking into that neighbour's house and grabbing her...lots of disturbing stuff about him...oh and his aunt said that she saw him washing clothes and using bleach...and she'd never seen him wash anything before...

[Marsh.]

It's such a tragedy when one sibling sucks all of the talent from the womb before the siblings get a chance.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah I just keep swaying with this one because it's also so plausible with Terry/that he accidently killed him when he was punishing him and then had to cover it up by killing the other two children...Terry breaking into that neighbour's house and grabbing her...lots of disturbing stuff about him...oh and his aunt said that she saw him washing clothes and using bleach...and she'd never seen him wash anything before...

Yeah but what bothers me is Pam and the sister only started claiming all that years later when Pam divorced Terry, why not say that at the time? Surely if your nephew was just murdered and you saw his step dad (who you knew had a strained relationship with your nephew) the day of the murders washing his clothes in bleach, alarms might have started ringing and you would think it's information that needed to be told right then and not years later?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's such a tragedy when one sibling sucks all of the talent from the womb before the siblings get a chance.

...yeah, silly selfish siblings..treating it all like a hotel and their mum's only there for their own personal womb service...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah but what bothers me is Pam and the sister only started claiming all that years later when Pam divorced Terry, why not say that at the time? Surely if your nephew was just murdered and you saw his step dad (who you knew had a strained relationship with your nephew) the day of the murders washing his clothes in bleach, alarms might have started ringing and you would think it's information that needed to be told right then and not years later?

..yeah that's the same with the penknife and Pam that I said earlier../the timeline you mentioned..?..she only 'found it' in Terry's stuff as she was about to leave him and was possibly very bitter...she'd said that it was so special to Stevie, given by his granddad and that he too it everywhere..?...but she didn't ask the police to have it back..she 'assumed' they had it or it was lost but she didn't ask..something so personal and precious belonging to her son, doesn't that seem odd as well..?...(although he did have it because he admitted that..)...and if he's to be believed and he took it from him on some occasion previously, then she hadn't known it was gone either/Stevie hadn't told her...but then he would possibly be scared to/scared of Terry ....what did you think of Terry's nephew Michael saying that Terry had admitted it.../killing them...?...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah that's the same with the penknife and Pam that I said earlier../the timeline you mentioned..?..she only 'found it' in Terry's stuff as she was about to leave him and was possibly very bitter...she'd said that it was so special to Stevie, given by his granddad and that he too it everywhere..?...but she didn't ask the police to have it back..she 'assumed' they had it or it was lost but she didn't ask..something so personal and precious belonging to her son, doesn't that seem odd as well..?...(although he did have it because he admitted that..)...and if he's to be believed and he took it from him on some occasion previously, then she hadn't known it was gone either/Stevie hadn't told her...but then he would possibly be scared to/scared of Terry ....what did you think of Terry's nephew Michael saying that Terry had admitted it.../killing them...?...

Ugh I just don't know really, they just all seem like liars, the whole bloody town That's not to say he isn't being truthful but there's so much gossip and "confessions" and whispers

[Niamh.]

I would actually completely discount Mark Byers, he seems to have a well verified alibi

ETA : actually the alibi around the time of the murders is only corroborated by his other step son Ryan and his wife hhmmm

Grim

"He claimed that Ryan told him on a number of occasions that his step-father had been in on the murder of the three children in West Memphis, AR, Stevie Branch, Chris Byers, and Michael Moore."

"Mandy concluded her statement by discussing how Byers told her that he burned down Brenda Atwood's trailer. She alleged that he told her how he had put gasoline all around the trailer and then used a cigarette as a fuse. "She advised he told her a cigarette made a excellent fuse, that you could light it, and due to slow burning, it would give you time to get away. She advised that Byers told her that Melissa had knowledge of this and she is dead now and dead people can't talk." Mandy also stated that Ryan had assisted in the burglary of the Atwood home."

http://forgetthelies.weebly.com/melissa-byers.html