[the truth]

i detest all racism but keeping things in perspective , there are different degrees of racism, stupid comments one hand , death threats violence, murder and terrorism at the worst end of the scale

[Crimson Dynamo]

I went to Fife today

I saw no racism.

So all is ok

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mock do u get what anecdotal evidence is?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Mock do u get what anecdotal evidence is?

We all could be claimed to be doing that on this very thread so don't just throw that at me.

[Ammi]

..my thoughts are that it's 'deteriorated' since the referendum results..(I think that Joey used that expression...and as he says, the referendum calling or results of which haven't caused any racial prejudices or xenophobia that wasn't already felt but more made them feel more comfortable with their comrades to have a voice..)...because of the 'it's all your fault/did you not think..' thing as well, adding another layer of hostility and negativity...that really is never going to have any value at all other than to detract from the problem that it is and one thing that I think both the vast majority of Brexiters and Remainers are in agreement on and come together on...is that we have to work together to quash that voice again and let it know that it isn't acceptable to any of us, no matter what our vote was...because 'accusing'../laying blame etc will only leave it to rise and rise...

[Kizzy]

Aw, I get the feeling the 'brexit' voters are like Bruce Willis in sixth sense, and just don't realise they've been duped..
Actually believing it's plausible to make a conscious decision on no information, it's impossible to say there was any measurable facts within the misinformation to base any semblance of a reasoned conclusion on.

Similarly, when faced with reports of racist incidents it is only brexiters who refuse to acknowledge it's happening?

Is this real life?

[Kizzy]

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

Conversely, I think anyone who lumps millions of people together to suit their dubious agenda is pretty ignorant and rather disingenuous.

I've been told on here that I shouldn't be upset about racism against Jews because we own all the banks... and Hollywood. That's the level of understanding of racism on this forum.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Conversely, I think anyone who lumps millions of people together to suit their dubious agenda is pretty ignorant and rather disingenuous.

I've been told on here that I shouldn't be upset about racism against Jews because we own all the banks... and Hollywood. That's the level of understanding of racism on this forum.

It's my opinion there is no agenda Livia, have I not been vocal about my feelings on the issue from day one?...I've been as genuine as humanly possible.

You may want to lump the forum together as to racism but I feel that suits your agenda, I agree however that there is a racist element to the forum as there is in society.

It is disingenuous to acknowledge racism towards one group but not another.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

what hate crime is this. It seems to be missing from the news

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is subjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reporting and other anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is sunjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reportingand anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

I suspect, like many of these things, its a rise not in hate crime but in people reporting hate crime in a social media type frenzy.

"Omg that geeza gave me the stink eye im gonna report him on that website"

etc etc

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I suspect, like many of these things, its a rise not in hate crime but in people reporting hate crime in a social media type frenzy.

"Omg that geeza gave me the stink eye im gonna report him on that website"

etc etc

I agree LT - but I will wager that IF anyone actually HONESTLY and IMPARTIALLY analysed those 'reports', then PUBLISHED the results (which they won't) then we would see that a FAR reduced number of actually genuine 'Hate' crimes have been reported.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is subjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reporting and other anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

Hmmm very 'us and them', I was only speaking from my personal point of veiw...I don't presume to know what other remain voters motives were.

The FACT is there were no FACTS to be had and the FACTS remain a mystery as to what what was, is and will be required to brexit effectively.

All you had was farage, bojo and the sun....All 3 have turned and sprinted as far from the issue as possible, how is that reassuring to anyone?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hmmm very 'us and them', I was only speaking from my personal point of veiw...I don't presume to know what other remain voters motives were.

The FACT is there were no FACTS to be had and the FACTS remain a mystery as to what what was, is and will be required to brexit effectively.

All you had was farage, bojo and the sun....All 3 have turned and sprinted as far from the issue as possible, how is that reassuring to anyone?

This is THE biggest claim by a lot of people and is the THE biggest lie:

Google: 'The EU' and MILLIONS of pages show.

The same people who would have NO trouble googling the best APP to purchase or the latest toe nail varnish that the 'celebrities' are sporting wrung their hands and wailed to the heavens that; "There just is no information out there" when it came to informing themselves of the facts about the EU and making an informed decision.

Farage has NOT run anywhere and it is pure BIGOTRY which sees some people continue to insult and berate this man, because the FACTS do not show anything other than that he has served his country unwaveriingly for 17 years, and having successfully voted himself out of a potential £200k pa job as an MEP - and NOT being an MP in Britain - then his job is done and he is stepping down to spend time with his family.

A lot of 'FACTS' about a post-Brexit Britain are there to be seen, but because they convey GOOD POSITIVE news and do not fit the bigotted 'Remainer''s agenda, they too - like the facts about the EU being BAD and DAMAGING for the UK - are ignored.

Facts about the fall in sterling and the Stock Market being temporary AND expected are there too - in my own posts - but again, they are ignored because they do not dovetail into the ludicrous post Brexit Dystopian future which all the hysterical doom-sayers are rejoicing in.

Time WILL show just how stupid such doom-saying really is.

I will BET on it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is THE biggest claim by a lot of people and is the THE biggest lie:

Google: 'The EU' and MILLIONS of pages show.

The same people who would have NO trouble googling the best APP to purchase or the latest toe nail varnish that the 'celebrities' are sporting wrung their hands and wailed to the heavens that; "There just is no information out there" when it came to informing themselves of the facts about the EU and making an informed decision.

Farage has NOT run anywhere and it is pure BIGOTRY which sees some people continue to insult and berate this man, because the FACTS do not show anything other than that he has served his country unwaveriingly for 17 years, and having successfully voted himself out of a potential £200k pa job as an MEP - and NOT being an MP in Britain - then his job is done and he is stepping down to spend time with his family.

A lot of 'FACTS' about a post-Brexit Britain are there to be seen, but because they convey GOOD POSITIVE news and do not fit the bigotted 'Remainer''s agenda, they too - like the facts about the EU being BAD and DAMAGING for the UK - are ignored.

Facts about the fall in sterling and the Stock Market being temporary AND expected are there too - in my own posts - but again, they are ignored because they do not dovetail into the ludicrous post Brexit Dystopian future which all the hysterical doom-sayers are rejoicing in.

Time WILL show just how stupid such doom-saying really is.

I will BET on it.

Hey I like google as much as the next person...but in this instance it is of no help as there is no plan...so nothing to google

Do I applaud a man who made it his mission to wipe trillions from the markets for his beloved Britain and go hide behind his nets in middle England?....Laughable.

[Kizzy]

How strange is it that only now you are concerned you're being misled by the media?..

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How strange is it that only now you are concerned you're being misled by the media?..

This is a patently false claim by you if it is adressed to me, because I can reproduce many posts where I claim that the media is used to condition people.

In any event, one cannot blame the media for reportahe in this issue - just as one cannot blame the police - because it is the validity of those doing the reporting to both which I question.

I could have telephoned that 'Police' line and said that I am a pole and a white English speaking person in Harehills had just told me to 'Feck off back to Poland'.

Of course, I am neither Polish nor has the said incident REALLY happened, but it is a CALL to a DEDICATED line and my call - though a lie which is IMPOSSIBLE to verify - HAS to be added to the statistics.

Once added, that Statistical Total is then made public by the Police and relayed by the Media.

Neither are to blame for reportage, but that 'Statistical Total' would still be exaggerated B.S.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is a patently false claim by you if it is adressed to me, because I can reproduce many posts where I claim that the media is used to condition people.

In any event, one cannot blame the media for reportahe in this issue - just as one cannot blame the police - because it is the validity of those doing the reporting to both which I question.

I could have telephoned that 'Police' line and said that I am a pole and a white English speaking person in Harehills had just told me to 'Feck off back to Poland'.

Of course, I am neither Polish nor has the said incident REALLY happened, but it is a CALL to a DEDICATED line and my call - though a lie which is IMPOSSIBLE to verify - HAS to be added to the statistics.

Once added, that Statistical Total is then made public by the Police and relayed by the Media.

Neither are to blame for reportage, but that 'Statistical Total' would still be exaggerated B.S.

Stats are BS now? Thanks I'll remember that for the next time you google some.

[Kizzy]

But the 'validity' of these people is not reliable... are they then 2nd class citizens? Liars? What?..


Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.

Following the UK narrowly voting for Brexit, there have been numerous reports of ethnic minorities and immigrant families being targeted for racial abuse



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7126706.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

But the 'validity' of these people is not reliable... are they then 2nd class citizens? Liars? What?..


Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.

Following the UK narrowly voting for Brexit, there have been numerous reports of ethnic minorities and immigrant families being targeted for racial abuse



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7126706.html

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

I would question the validity of that claim.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

I have already proposed that argument LT and - as usual - it has fallen on deaf ears because it does not dovetail with preconceptions.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have already proposed that argument LT and - as usual - it has fallen on deaf ears because it does not dovetail with preconceptions.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

I find it amazing and depressing how this gets reported as news and then as fact

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

That should be the motto of this place.