[Ross.]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

Nicole is awful and I'm convinced she's going to win. I don't want her to but she would be a fitting winner (crap season, crap winner)

Same, I'm not watching anymore but from what I've read I can't see anyone but Nicole, possibly Paul, winning

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Maybe the guys who have won have just had better gameplay?

I just can't understand the mentality of wanting girls to stick together and take all the guys out but being against it the other way around and thinking it's okay. I get that it's the viewers' preference widely but it doesn't make them 'bad people' for it or whatever I see them getting accused of if they team up against the girls.

I agree, it doesn't make them bad people at all.. I would do the same only if It helps me not because i'm being horrible.. but I don't view females and males differently they both human and no different to one another so I will treat all sexes the same and treat them as people not over their gender.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Maybe the guys who have won have just had better gameplay?

I just can't understand the mentality of wanting girls to stick together and take all the guys out but being against it the other way around and thinking it's okay. I get that it's the viewers' preference widely but it doesn't make them 'bad people' for it or whatever I see them getting accused of if they team up against the girls.

Well whenever a group of girls gets any leverage by their own doing, Grodner steps in and intervenes. That's how we ended up with the Coup d'Etat in BB11 and Pandora's Box in BB13.

Part of the reason such a mentality exists is that we've seen a group of guys bro down and steamroll through the season numerous times, and it usually results in the worst seasons like BB12 and BB16. Part of the reason is that Grodner and Kass seem to almost exclusively cast codependent women in order to guarantee that they're a number for the men. Part of the reason is that the production ideal is a bunch of dudes in the endgame with maybe one female, as evidenced by BB12 and BB16 being held in high regard by production and being two of the most common seasons given in sequester to new HGs before the show. Part of the reason is that Survivor, a fundamentally similar show, has a near 50% statistic of women winning while Big Brother doesn't even have a 30% statistic.

I don't think anyone actually thinks Nicole is an evil person, but she is an incredibly frustrating one. She perpetuates the show's worst tropes about gender and is more concerned about being the last girl standing than anything else. She presents herself as wholesome by censoring herself from saying words like crap and damn, yet she lets Corey defile her on the live feeds. The edit tries to present her as the goofy, lovable girl next door, but on the live feeds she's proven herself to be whiny, needy, critical of other females like clockwork, and frustratingly delusional. Basically, the TV show goes out of its way to present Nicole as how she wants us to see her, but anyone who has seen the live feeds sees that she isn't anything like that at all.

[JerseyWins]

It's fair enough to always root for women to stick together & win for that reason. I find that kinda weird anyway but it makes some sense at least.

But, like, the same mentality happens with Survivor where we see much more of a mix in all of those areas (all girl alliances, girls' winning percentage, etc.).

[Macie Lightfoot]

I don't think it really is though? We don't see nearly as many attempts at an all girls alliance partly because they don't need to be made out of necessity like they do on BB. The girls that get on Survivor are ready to play and are a lot more mercenary and actively playing the game and trying to win. There's a huge difference between Survivor women and Big Brother women.

[JerseyWins]

I also think it's fair to just have a preference for the women that are casted just from generally liking their characteristic traits more... I'd probably say I prefer the males a bit more on a general basis for that reason... but to ALWAYS want to see the girls sticking together and NEVER liking the males sticking together (or for a girl to side with guys) is pretty ridiculous regardless of past statistics and gender politics.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I don't think it really is though? We don't see nearly as many attempts at an all girls alliance partly because they don't need to be made out of necessity like they do on BB. The girls that get on Survivor are ready to play and are a lot more mercenary and actively playing the game and trying to win. There's a huge difference between Survivor women and Big Brother women.

Eh, I guess I could see this. The girls are generally more aggressive/smarter players on Survivor.

However, it doesn't change the fact that many love the all girl alliances and hate the all guy alliances on Survivor as well despite the show being very balanced in gender roles, winners, and what not...

[Macie Lightfoot]

Alliances in Survivor usually aren't as homogeneous as they are in Big Brother, so I think comparing the two is apples and oranges. The only ones that come to mind are the Black Widow Brigade, which most people love due to the star power of Parvati and Cirie more than anything, and Kim's alliance in One World, which I don't think anyone can muster up any sort of opinion about.

And again, the past statistics and gender politics behind BBUS is the reason that some people appear to blindly root for women just because of their gender. The show and its fanbase wouldn't be in this position if women were cast as more than token showmance filler, if there wasn't always a girl in the cast ready to cannibalize her gender in attempt to be the last woman standing, if a woman was able to win the show by her own merit (which again, hasn't happened since 2005), etc. The attitude is a product of the circumstances of the show, not the other way around.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Exactly. She has done nothing 'bad' that warrants any hate really. If she wanted all the males out she'd be loved. It's ridiculous how unfairly guys get judged on this show.

Like if the guys want girls out they're 'sexist' but if girls want guys out they're 'legends'

I actually agree with this and one of the most annoying things about this forum is its blind support of women just for the sake of it under the guise of some kind of faux feminism, but that isn't actually the reason I dislike Nicole. She's whiny as hell (I actually think she's like the male Cody), her showmance is nauseating and any of the mildly endearing aspects of her personality there may have been in BB16 have completely evaporated this season.

All that being said, she doesn't deserve to be booed. One of my favourite things about North American BB's are the warm reception 99% of the houseguests receive upon their exit, and if they're booed you know (most of the time) they've been a real ****. It's a much nicer atmosphere than BBUK with its incessant booing and nasty chanting

[LukeB]

The US crowd are amazing but I still can't forgive them booing Christine lmao, she had more booes than Aaryn

[LukeB]

I wish we had different returnees tbh. I liked Nicole and James from their original seasons but they have annoyed me and I'm pretty sure James is playing for AFP instead of 500k it seems like those two have stolen 2 peoples places.

[Jack_]

I did tell you they were pretty disappointing choices

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I did tell you they were pretty disappointing choices

I thought positive that they were going to do better but they have disappointed me.. I have no idea out of James and Nicole though who is the most disappointment

Nicole has no social game at all and spends all her time with Corey I don't get the rat/snake hate because "welcome to big brother.gif" (twitter aim) but I get the showmance hate which is what put me off her. Some showmances work but some are gross, he doesn't even like her lmao

and there's James who yet again desperate for a showmance and he's obsessed with being loved by America and he thinks he will be top 3 for the AFP I think he wants AFP more than $500k

Da''Vonne did better this season and Frank 50/50 but I prefer him to those two lmao (hated him on BB14)

[Jack_]

To give Nicole her credit she is doing something right to have lasted this long, and I do wish I'd actually posted pre-season that she'd be my prediction to win because she genuinely was, but she hasn't gone about it in the way I expected nor one I find at all entertaining or endearing

I actually preferred James more this season until he tanked his and Natalie's games in the last couple of weeks. It's interesting people bring up AFP because I'm sure I read that it went to his head last year and he thought he was a much bigger celeb than he was and above interacting with fans, so God help him if he gets it again

I didn't know Frank before this season and didn't like him initially but in hindsight I'd have taken him over eight weeks of Paulie or whatever it was. And I enjoyed Day just as much but we got more of her so

[Macie Lightfoot]

I think it was just way too soon for all the vets and siblings. I don't think Nicole or James were really that different to how they were in their original seasons, it's just that their circumstances and positions within the house changed. Both of their appeals were being underdogs in seasons that desperately needed them at the time. It's interest at a conceptual level how Nicole came full circle and morphed into Christine, and how James served as the Meg to Natalie and talked her out of her accurate intuition, but in practice it resulted in a bunch of gross outcomes I didn't want to happen.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

To give Nicole her credit she is doing something right to have lasted this long, and I do wish I'd actually posted pre-season that she'd be my prediction to win because she genuinely was, but she hasn't gone about it in the way I expected nor one I find at all entertaining or endearing

I actually preferred James more this season until he tanked his and Natalie's games in the last couple of weeks. It's interesting people bring up AFP because I'm sure I read that it went to his head last year and he thought he was a much bigger celeb than he was and above interacting with fans, so God help him if he gets it again

I didn't know Frank before this season and didn't like him initially but in hindsight I'd have taken him over eight weeks of Paulie or whatever it was. And I enjoyed Day just as much but we got more of her so

She was nominated a lot during bb16 and now she is the only HG to not be put up so yeah she is doing something right I guess but hopefully Paul wins next week and sends her home but I think Paul would trash Nicole in the final 2 so if he can win over Nicole then he needs to take her... I only want Paul/Victor to win mainly Paul who has played a great social game. #friendship

[Macie Lightfoot]

so Paul's going on his usual unnedessarily stir up **** power trip and called James in for an interrogation about why Natalie targeted him when she was HOH. James, ever the player, managed to somehow get Paul and Victor to believe that Natalie threatened to never talk to him again if he works with them (she made this threat about Nicole and Corey) and all he managed to do was give Paul and Victor even more ammunition to **** on Natalie for. Good job James!

[LukeB]

So Nicole and James threw their BB experience away for a showmance and Corey and Natalie don't want anything outside of big brother. lmao this is why you shouldn't throw your game away for a female/male folks.

[Macie Lightfoot]

There's a decent chance Nicole wins the season and James wins AFP so I'm sure they're gonna be really upset they threw away their BB experience for $500,000 and $25,000.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Also, I think the idea of "Poor James, he's gonna have his heart broken by that evil conniving Jersey girl Natalie" is a bunch of **** considering how many times he sold her out, all the things he's kept from her, and how he's generally been more concerned about making moves to benefit Nicole and Paulie rather than Natalie. I don't think Natalie's a victim, but James certainly isn't one himself.

[Raph]

Ugh of course Natalie just wants to be friends. Also saying it made her uncomfortable when James touched her leg last night like give it a break woman she's so opportunistic it's unreal Paulie was right all along. I'm glad she seems to have butchered her chances at AFP though!

[Macie Lightfoot]

She never said they were going to be dating outside the house so I don't see how that's inconsistent with anything but okay.

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Raph

I'm glad she seems to have butchered her chances at AFP though!

What gives you that impression?

The fact that Nicole is practically locked in for F2 just boosts Nat's chances even more of winning AFP. Paulie, Victor and Paul couldn't even win a damn care package so they've got no chance of AFP.

[Macie Lightfoot]

And I'm pretty sure all Natalie did was push James's hand off her leg, and maybe it has to do with the fact that they've been fighting the last few days and she's pissed at him. But I'm sure that'll just get spun around into how Natalie's an ungrateful little hussy and how dare she be mad at James when he carried her to this point. Or something like that, idk. The lengths you two go to stick to your story is impressive I guess.

[caprimint]

Meh I don't think the care packages are gonna have a lot to do with AFH. Like I still realistically see Paul and Victor having more votes than Corey/Michelle unless they are in the final 2 of course.