[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…not to detract and derail what’s a very interesting sharing of opinions between BBXX and Vesavius in offering different perspectives…the initial remarks that caused upset and offence from Mickey…?..were not only said to a gay person, the offensive term wasn’t just directed at a gay person…it was all pointedly directed at a gay female and the ‘tie you up’ comment was definitely something that many females would find very disturbing and wouldn’t find any ‘lightness of joking’ in at all in any world but most definitely in this current world…and I do feel that’s often forgotten or overshadowed with females…so I do think this all quite layered because no such remarks were made to any male of the house…only a young female…

…I was watching a vid of a bonding chat with JoJo and Mickey/discussing their tattoos…and it was all very sweet and it made me think…I do think that Mickey maybe struggles in relating to females other than on a ‘physical attraction/sexual’ type basis…I don’t know if that’s true, that’s just my own pondering but the tattoo chat they has was so endearing because it had such a ‘father/daughter’ type vibe …

I think you have a point.

While the comments were homophobic, I don’t think Mickey is homophobic, I think he’s ignorant and actually I don’t think it was rooted in homophobia but I do think it was probably rooted in some kind of mix of lack of social skills, sexism and arrogance in that he’s probably used his fame throughout life to obtain what he wants and so the idea a woman wouldn’t give him the time of day was unfamiliar to him.

The “tie you up” comment is indicative of a bruised ego.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Your comment originally suggested that Mickey made his comments in the current climate of “woke liberalism” That is undermining the homophobic remarks.

Yes, because the current climate of woke liberalism plays a part and can't be separated out. I'm not going to ignore talking about it because it offends.

Originally Posted by BBXX

I agree in theory, but you yourself are deciding what offence is fake and what isn’t and then playing victim based off of your own made up benchmark, which isn’t actually reality.

If you only agree in theory then you don't actually agree at all.

Our own judgement and interpretation of intention and context is all we have. We all make judgements on those things every day and I trust my reading of a situation. I am always going to trust my own judgement on these things over an alternative reality dictated to me by others.

Originally Posted by BBXX

I think we should rationalise this further: your version of straight people being silenced extends to...

Whereas gay people being silenced is...

Again, you are comparing as if it's some kind of victimhood competition.

I have said from the start that LGBT+ issues are as important.

Originally Posted by BBXX

Sorry you can’t say fag anymore without it being called homophobic though, I guess.

I have never said that at all. That definitely is not a word that I would choose to use and I have not defended Mickey using it. But, in the end it's just a single word and only has the power over you that you give it. In the end offence isn't given, it's taken.

I wouldn't have used 'queer' a few years ago either until it was re-appropriated, so who knows in the future. It's all ultimately about context and intent. Even JoJo understands that.

Originally Posted by BBXX

I am not going to deny there aren’t radicalised members of the LGBT community; that would be stupid and dishonest. But I do think there needs to be a bit of honesty here about the power imbalance that each group of people have at either end of the spectrum.

At the end of the day, LGBT people make up 3% of the population.

Yes, but that 3% has a vastly disproportionate loud voice and influence and has the backing of both the State and the Corporate world.

Look, I am not here to defend the radicalised right at all... I have explained why idiots like Tate have emerged, I am not here to say that's a good thing. I do not think that's it's a good thing, tbc.

I dislike the radical right as much as I dislike the radical left. Both are full of nutters.

Originally Posted by BBXX

It’s been good to debate with you as always but I feel like I cant continue this conversation without repeating myself, though I will happily read your reply. I appreciate your time in this exchange. Have a good day.

I understand. Thank you for staying civil and taking the time to express your views. We might not have arrived at an agreement but that's ok

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…not to detract and derail what’s a very interesting sharing of opinions between BBXX and Vesavius in offering different perspectives…the initial remarks that caused upset and offence from Mickey…?..were not only said to a gay person, the offensive term wasn’t just directed at a gay person…it was all pointedly directed at a gay female and the ‘tie you up’ comment was definitely something that many females would find very disturbing and wouldn’t find any ‘lightness of joking’ in at all in any world but most definitely in this current world…and I do feel that’s often forgotten or overshadowed with females…so I do think this all quite layered because no such remarks were made to any male of the house…only a young female…

…I was watching a vid of a bonding chat with JoJo and Mickey/discussing their tattoos…and it was all very sweet and it made me think…I do think that Mickey maybe struggles in relating to females other than on a ‘physical attraction/sexual’ type basis…I don’t know if that’s true, that’s just my own pondering but the tattoo chat they has was so endearing because it had such a ‘father/daughter’ type vibe …

Yeah, the 'tie you up' stuff was what I found most over the line in all honesty.

I do think that it was Mickey attempting banter with JoJo but I also think it was clumsy, ill judged, and inappropriate when directed at someone that doesn't know him or his intentions well.

But, yeah, JoJo has made peace with it and moved on and she's the one in there with him who sees the most of him, so I think I am happy to move on as well.

I am very impressed with her in all honesty.