[Crimson Dynamo]

surely if they pray that it is shown it will be?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This is an interesting read about the 25th of December...
https://thinkerfromiowa.wordpress.co...n-december-25/

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This is an interesting read about the 25th of December...
https://thinkerfromiowa.wordpress.co...n-december-25/

And 'people of faith' are lambasted as naive and gullible.

First of all Johnny - Nowhere in the Judeo- Christian Bible does it claim that Christ was born on the 25th of December. That date was seized upon by the newly Christian Emperor Constantine to celebrate 'The Mass of Christ' (Christmas) because the Winter Solstice and the ancient pagan Roman midwinter festivals called 'Saturnalia' took place on this date, so it would help the previously pagan subjects of the Roman Empire to more easily 'acclimatise' to their new religion.

Secondly, this fact does make a nonsense of any claims that 'Christmas' is nothing to do with Jesus. There is a gulf of difference in claiming that Jesus was BORN on the 25th of December - which no Christian does - and in merely celebrating his MASS on that day for the ancient reasons given above.

If Christmas was nothing to do with Jesus (a ludicrous claim given the name 'Christ Mass') and ALL to do with pre-existing Pagan festivals which were originally held on that date (some erroneously by the way - more of which below) then WHY aren't all you atheists sending each other 'Merry 'Dies Natalis Solis Invicti' cards, exchanging 'Saturnalia Gifts' and wishing each other 'Happy Mithrasmas'?

Unfortunately for the author(s) of the linked article you provided Johnny, and those who 'believe' in its truths - Nowhere is there any historical corroboration that the totally mythical entity Mithra was born on the 25th of December either. There is only problematical and highly contested conjecture.

So it is nothing but 'Skeptic Fallacy' for anyone to claim that Christians hijacked the 25th of December as Christ's 'Birthday' because they were copying Mithraism - Christians do not claim that birthdate for Christ, they only celebrate his mass on it, and apart from the fact that Mithras is a total myth, there is no historical proof anywhere to corrobarate any claims that 'Mithras' was 'born' on that date either.

In addition; how can Christ be an invention copied from Mithras when the Roman cult of Mithras was not popularized until the 1st to 4th Century AD -- AFTER the death of Christ and over a thousand years or so AFTER the Old Testament prophecies of Christ's birth and the circumstances surrounding it?

And this is not the only fallacy about Mithra in your linked article and elsewhere Johnny:

MITHRA

“Mithras was born of a virgin” — According to historians, Mithras was born from a rock, and not even of a person at all, much less a 'virgin'.

“Mithras's 'Birth' was attended to by Shepherds” — This claim is based solely on the stone relief below which shows humans holding what do appear to be shepherd's crooks :



Which not only nails the Mithras 'Virgin Birth' as a clear lie, but is also fascinating seeing as how Mithras was supposed to be 'born' BEFORE the creation of HUMANKIND.

“Mithra had 12 disciples.” — Solely based on another carving below which shows Mithras surrounded by 12 signs of the Zodiac:



What kind of idiotic leap of faith does it take to turn 12 signs of the zodiac into 12 living breathing human disciples? To illustrate how desperate the anti-Christian lobby are, one researcher - Franz Cumont - even suggested that the zodiac signs in the relief were actually 'disciples' 'dressed up as zodiac signs'.

“Mithras was crucified. Dead for three days. And then resurrected.” — More lies by anti-Christian bullshotters, because in Mithraism, Mithras never dies. After concluding his earthly mission he 'returns to the skies in a chariot', and in Mithraism there is no historical mention of crucifixion, burial or resurrection in any artwork or text.

So without death - How can there be resurrection Johnny?

“...there is “no death of Mithras” - Rihard L Gordon: 'Image and Value in the Graeco-Roman World: Studies in Mithraism and Religious Art'.

“We don’t know anything about the death of Mithras…We have a lot of monuments, but we have almost no textual evidence, because this was a secret religion. But I know of no references to a supposed death and resurrection.” - Dr. Edwin Yamauchi.

"Mithras as a real person did not exist" - Franz Cumont.

There is a lot more on Mithras which I look forward to debating with you Johnny, plus the rest of the fallacies in your linked article, and your other points concerning 'Noah's Ark' etc - but only in a serious civil manner, otherwise it is just futile.

For now, I must leave it here - I am supposed to be working hard on finishng a kitchen refit, which I HAVE managed to do the majority of DESPITE 'idling away' hours of my time on here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

surely if they pray that it is shown it will be?

Prayer DEFINITELY works for me, and I am certainly no church attending, Bible Thumping 'Plaster Saint'.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Prayer DEFINITELY works for me, and I am certainly no church attending, Bible Thumping 'Plaster Saint'.

Me too Kirk,I take it some of Tibb don't celebrate Easter either, shame really as those eggs and hot cross buns are scumptious

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Prayer DEFINITELY works for me, and I am certainly no church attending, Bible Thumping 'Plaster Saint'.

well if you pray for things that will happen anyway or have a 50 50 chance then you will persuade yourself it worked just like lucky charms and mascots

of football players and lucky clothing etc

also naturally when it does not work you will not remember

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Me too Kirk,I take it some of Tibb don't celebrate Easter either, shame really as those eggs and hot cross buns are scumptious

no one will ceIebrate it

but they will eat eggs and hot cross buns because they are tasty and are in the shops (actually i saw some in sainsburys yesterday)

but no one will be thinking about jesus arriving on a donkey etc

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Me too Kirk,I take it some of Tibb don't celebrate Easter either, shame really as those eggs and hot cross buns are scumptious

By celebrate do you mean "buys eggs?" Is that what the good Lord recommends? I would have thought celebrating Easter the Christian way would be going to Mass?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well if you pray for things that will happen anyway or have a 50 50 chance then you will persuade yourself it worked just like lucky charms and mascots

of football players and lucky clothing etc

also naturally when it does not work you will not remember

Err - No. I am talking about praying for specific things which are delivered in the most weird of ways - time and again. AND I am aware that while this DOES happen to me, that there are a lot more deserving people than me whose prayers DO NOT get answered.

God works in mysterious ways.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Err - No. I am talking about praying for specific things which are delivered in the most weird of ways - time and again. AND I am aware that while this DOES appen to me, that there are a lot more deserving people than me whose prayers DO NOT get answered.

God works in mysterious ways.

Carrier pigeon?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

By celebrate do you mean "buys eggs?" Is that what the good Lord recommends? I would have thought celebrating Easter the Christian way would be going to Mass?

Yeah - Then scoffing those delicious Easter Eggs.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

By celebrate do you mean "buys eggs?" Is that what the good Lord recommends? I would have thought celebrating Easter the Christian way would be going to Mass?

i am sure baby jesus liked chocolate

maybe the stone to his tomb was made of chocolate and that is why it was rolled away easily when his body was taken away


(only for it to be found empty the next day and the only rational explanation that could be found was.... he came back from the dead and floated up to the sky, natch)

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Carrier pigeon?

No not yet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Err - No. I am talking about praying for specific things which are delivered in the most weird of ways - time and again. AND I am aware that while this DOES appen to me, that there are a lot more deserving people than me whose prayers DO NOT get answered.

God works in mysterious ways.

yes but Kirk you think you get racing tips like that too

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no one will ceIebrate it

but they will eat eggs and hot cross buns because they are tasty and are in the shops (actually i saw some in sainsburys yesterday)

but no one will be thinking about jesus arriving on a donkey etc

If you can state this with so MUCH certainty, then you know what is in the hearts and minds of every human being on this planet, which makes me wonder if YOU are God and if all your anti Religion posts are just a test for the rest of us.

It is all becoming clear now LT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If you can state this with so MUCH certainty, then you know what is in the hearts and minds of every human being on this planet, which makes me wonder if YOU are God and if all your anti Religion posts are just a test for the rest of us.

It is all becoming clear now LT.

i work in mysterious ecumenical ways

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes but Kirk you think you get racing tips like that too

No LT - The paranormal and God are different. Yvette Fielding does not host 'Most Worshipped'.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No LT - The paranormal and God are different. Yvette Fielding does not host 'Most Worshipped'.

no kirk they are both bollocks and thus the same



Do you seriously think if paranormal things were real yvette and that scouse knob would be the main people in the UK doing a programme about it?


that in itself should tell you something...

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

By celebrate do you mean "buys eggs?" Is that what the good Lord recommends? I would have thought celebrating Easter the Christian way would be going to Mass?

Eggs are the beginning of life( Easter Sunday),hence Easter EGGS,hot cross buns are marked with a cross due to Good Friday, the good Lord doesn't 'recommend' these things it is the way some Christians celebrate the life and death of Christ,going to mass is another option,why do people get so annoyed with any question about them celebrating a Christian festival ? it's just a question, has Easter been stolen aswell ?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i am sure baby jesus liked chocolate

maybe the stone to his tomb was made of chocolate and that is why it was rolled away easily when his body was taken away


(only for it to be found empty the next day and the only rational explanation that could be found was.... he came back from the dead and floated up to the sky, natch)

Take the piss all you want LT,my shoulders are broad ,I can take it,

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Eggs are the beginning of life( Easter Sunday),hence Easter EGGS,hot cross buns are marked with a cross due to Good Friday, the good Lord doesn't 'recommend' these things it is the way some Christians celebrate the life and death of Christ,going to mass is another option,why do people get so annoyed with any question about them celebrating a Christian festival ? it's just a question, has Easter been stolen aswell ?

I'm not annoyed lol

But when you say "it's just a question" what question are you actually asking? I don't actually understand? Why do people buy Easter Eggs if they aren't Christian? Umm because they taste nice

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not annoyed lol

But when you say "it's just a question" what question are you actually asking? I don't actually understand? Why do people buy Easter Eggs if they aren't Christian? Umm because they taste nice

It tastes nice,hmm well why don't people buy a bar then,(it's better value)why an egg? It's plainly a Christian thing so why would none Christians want a part of it , BTW a few people seem annoyed that some people believe in God, it wasn't directed soley to you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Take the piss all you want LT,my shoulders are broad ,I can take it,

I hear Marks do plus sizes now

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Eggs are the beginning of life( Easter Sunday),hence Easter EGGS,hot cross buns are marked with a cross due to Good Friday, the good Lord doesn't 'recommend' these things it is the way some Christians celebrate the life and death of Christ,going to mass is another option,why do people get so annoyed with any question about them celebrating a Christian festival ? it's just a question, has Easter been stolen aswell ?

As a matter of fact... yes. It celebrates Oestra, goddess of fertility, who's feast day is 21st March and who's symbols are a hare (the Easter bunny?) and an egg... because she's a fertility goddess. It's also where we get the word 'Oestrogen', for the female hormone.

All that said... Everyone knows Easter is about Jesus Christ and the festival of Easter ties in with the Jewish Passover which was a thing while people in Britain were still running round painting themselves with woad. And no one on this forum could put their hand on their heart and say they are a card-carrying Pagan, everyone knows it's a Christian festival and they still give eggs and take the day off. I am not a Christian or a Pagan and I give Easter eggs and take the day off but I do acknowledge that the festival is a Christian one.

I am completely at ease with seeing this advert in a cinema. As a non-Christian I don't find in in the least insulting and it shocks me that people have made so much fuss about it, especially seeing that many of those same people don't have a problem with Christmas adverts starting at the beginning of November, costing millions in a desperate attempt to get us to buy overpriced stuff we don't need. Christmas is a Christian holiday, whichever way anyone wants to bend it. And I've heard all the stuff about it being a family get-together and how it was nicked from the Pagans... but like I said, no one on here is a Pagan. Plenty of people here have no religion but still take the whole of Christmas off, sing carols, give presents... without for one moment acknowledging the simple truth that Jesus is the reason for the season.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It tastes nice,hmm well why don't people buy a bar then,(it's better value)why an egg? It's plainly a Christian thing so why would none Christians want a part of it , BTW a few people seem annoyed that some people believe in God, it wasn't directed soley to you.

Well, I'm not a massive Chocolate fan anyway but my kids are and the eggs look nicer and something a bit different

What about Halloween then hhmmm, do your kids dress up because you know that's an old Celtic Pagan festival...... It's alright though I get it, it's fun just like Christmas (without the religious palavar that goes with it)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

As a matter of fact... yes. It celebrates Oestra, goddess of fertility, who's feast day is 21st March and who's symbols are a hare (the Easter bunny?) and an egg... because she's a fertility goddess. It's also where we get the word 'Oestrogen', for the female hormone.

All that said... Everyone knows Easter is about Jesus Christ and the festival of Easter ties in with the Jewish Passover which was a thing while people in Britain were still running round painting themselves with woad. And no one on this forum could put their hand on their heart and say they are a card-carrying Pagan, everyone knows it's a Christian festival and they still give eggs and take the day off. I am not a Christian or a Pagan and I give Easter eggs and take the day off but I do acknowledge that the festival is a Christian one.

I am completely at ease with seeing this advert in a cinema. As a non-Christian I don't find in in the least insulting and it shocks me that people have made so much fuss about it, especially seeing that many of those same people don't have a problem with Christmas adverts starting at the beginning of November, costing millions in a desperate attempt to get us to buy overpriced stuff we don't need. Christmas is a Christian holiday, whichever way anyone wants to bend it. And I've heard all the stuff about it being a family get-together and how it was nicked from the Pagans... but like I said, no one on here is a Pagan. Plenty of people here have no religion but still take the whole of Christmas off, sing carols, give presents... without for one moment acknowledging the simple truth that Jesus is the reason for the season.

him being a jew, i bet he is stoked that he started christmas..