[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Are you for real?

It isn't what I have been reading on here.

People are debating whether she's homophobic. I haven't seen anyone say she should change or be forced to change. Just people should stop denying what her opinions are, bigoted.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Ok,I dont find it entertaining two adults rolling round on the floor,showing us their arseholes,talking disgustingly I DONT WANT TO SEE IT, OR HEAR IT,get it,got it,good.

Hear,Hear as Ann would say !!

[Maru]

I think forget we vote for people (well we try to) who share similar values, so Ann represents a portion of the population. Does it make her views correct? No... but it shows we're not all the same and there are different reasons I think people have for voting someone in and what we may consider homophobic, may not really be that in other people's eyes... they see it as a value difference and you don't have to agree. But that is a democracy...

It's difficult for me to take an extreme opinion, because there's lots of things I could have an extreme opinion on... for example, people who are from cultures that don't treat animals well. It is a major issue for me, but if I were to encounter people and tell them "You are a cruel abuser!"... it does nothing for me, nothing for them, nothing for society.

We just have to remember that we live in a democracy and sometimes what is not fair for us, is fair for others, as their opinions (ideally) should have equal weight... in a democracy.

Now on a forum, the rules are different... we are allowed to play out those differences here and we voice our opinion whether otherwise we would not be able to. So if I saw someone who was practicing behavior I disagreed majorly with, this would be an opportunity for me to be like "Hey, do you consider your behavior here when it effects ****"...

I don't think it is wrong that some people like their culture and the way they do things, but there is a problem when we decide as individuals to say our culture is superior to others...

I mean there's a lot of things I could say about being American that give me a headache. There are a lot of people here who don't care about the environment, who are happy to throw trash on the road and generally, don't care that they feed their kids tons of fast food, processed garbage and junk food, and are surprised when they suddenly have major health problems (especially mental) and other learning issues when they are older...

My grandmothers, both religious and strong matriarchs, made us sit down to a table and made us use proper language and forced us to finish what we got from our bowls. Said that it's not right that we waste food we got off our plate... well, they also say things about God and other things that other people here would call superstitious.. But we didn't talk much about religion growing up and now I see from their angle better as an adult, why for them having decorum in how you behave and treats others is so important nowadays...

My point is, you can watch Ann and you can say her views are homophobic... but you can't say anything else about her views. The rest of her views, actually, are things that are missing from our society. Such as self-respect, dignity, decorum, caring for your reputation and looking after others (some people would call this bossy )... there's nothing necessarily wrong with this... but she's one thing in a huge melting pot, which is Western culture. No single individual defines who we are as a society, and I think that's where diversity is a strength...

So yes, she is showing what I would call homophobic... but to judge a person based on one thing would be unfair. You have to see the whole picture, their upbringing and see where their views work and don't work... and where it doesn't work is that she's not able to share in some of the other changes in society that have made us a more positive and less restrictive way of expressing ourselves...

Anyway, I think that some could maybe borrow a lesson or two from Ann, but that also others could rub off on her... though maybe not literally

She is in her 70's, the end is nearer than farther... so she may be even more concerned about the end of life and her self-perception as a religious person may not be up to snuff, so she may have that in mind there when being environment that she may come off very wrong... and I think that is her right. She has sacrificed comfort to stick to her guns and to challenge others, and I think that's true for most devout people in 2010+... it's "risky" to say these views in the public, much less the homophobic stuff, but even just anything about religion... it's stigmatized now..

...but then again, what isn't stigmatized anymore? That's pretty much 100% of cultural discourse these days is stigmatizing this that and the other and having your (often strong) opinion about it... that is Western culture now, strongly opinionated and staunchly this or that... that mushy middle is slowly disappearing.

TDLR... Sorry, you have to read the post. #maruthuglife

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Maru

I think forget people we vote for people (well we try to) who share similar values, so Ann represents a portion of the population. Does it make her views correct? No... but it shows we're not all the same and there are different reasons I think people have for voting someone in and what we may consider homophobic, may not really be that in other people's eyes... they see it as a value difference and you don't have to agree. But that is a democracy...

It's difficult for me to take an extreme opinion, because there's lots of things I could have an extreme opinion on... for example, people who are from cultures that don't treat animals well. It is a major issue for me, but if I were to encounter people and tell them "You are a cruel abuser!"... it does nothing for me, nothing for them, nothing for society.

We just have to remember that we live in a democracy and what is not fair for us, is fair for others, as their opinions (ideally) should have equal weight... in a democracy.

Now on a forum, the rules are different... we are allowed to play out those differences here and we voice our opinion whether otherwise we would not be able to. So if I saw someone who was practicing behavior I disagreed majorly with, this would be an opportunity for me to be like "Hey, do you consider your behavior here when it effects ****"...

I don't think it is wrong that some people like their culture and the way they do things, but there is a problem when we decide as individuals to say our culture is superior to others...

I mean there's a lot of things I could say about being American that give me a headache. There are a lot of people here who don't care about the environment, who are happy to throw trash on the road and generally, don't care that they feed their kids tons of fast food, processed garbage and junk food, and are surprised when they suddenly have major health problems (especially mental) and other learning issues when they are older...

My grandmothers, both religious and strong matriarchs, made us sit down to a table and made us use proper language and forced us to finish what we got from our bowls. Said that it's not right that we waste food we got off our plate... well, they also say things about God and other things that other people here would call superstitious.. But we didn't talk much about religion growing up and now I see from their angle better as an adult, why for them having decorum in how you behave and treats others is so important nowadays...

My point is, you can watch Ann and you can say her views are homophobic... but you can't say anything else about her views. The rest of her views, actually, are things that are missing from our society. Such as self-respect, dignity, decorum, caring for your reputation and looking after others (some people would call this bossy )... there's nothing necessarily wrong with this... but she's one thing in a huge melting pot, which is Western culture. No single individual defines who we are as a society, and I think that's where diversity is a strength...

So yes, she is showing what I would call homophobic... but to judge a person based on one thing would be unfair. You have to see the whole picture, their upbringing and see where their views work and don't work... and where it doesn't work is that she's not able to share in some of the other changes in society that have made us a more positive and less restrictive way of expressing ourselves...

Anyway, I think that some could maybe borrow a lesson or two from Ann, but that also others could rub off on her... though maybe not literally

She is in her 70's, the end is nearer than farther... so she may be even more concerned about the end of life and her self-perception as a religious person may not be up to snuff, so she may have that in mind there when being environment that she may come off very wrong... and I think that is her right. She has sacrificed comfort to stick to her guns and to challenge others, and I think that's true for most devout people in 2010+... it's "risky" to say these views in the public, much less the homophobic stuff, but even just anything about religion... it's stigmatized now..

...but then again, what isn't stigmatized anymore? That's pretty much 100% of cultural discourse these days is stigmating this that and the other and having your (often strong) opinion about it... that is Western culture now, strongly opinionated and staunchly this or that... that mushy middle is slowly disappearing.

TDLR... Sorry, you have to read the post. #maruthuglife

nice post maru

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Maru

I think forget we vote for people (well we try to) who share similar values, so Ann represents a portion of the population. Does it make her views correct? No... but it shows we're not all the same and there are different reasons I think people have for voting someone in and what we may consider homophobic, may not really be that in other people's eyes... they see it as a value difference and you don't have to agree. But that is a democracy...

It's difficult for me to take an extreme opinion, because there's lots of things I could have an extreme opinion on... for example, people who are from cultures that don't treat animals well. It is a major issue for me, but if I were to encounter people and tell them "You are a cruel abuser!"... it does nothing for me, nothing for them, nothing for society.

We just have to remember that we live in a democracy and sometimes what is not fair for us, is fair for others, as their opinions (ideally) should have equal weight... in a democracy.

Now on a forum, the rules are different... we are allowed to play out those differences here and we voice our opinion whether otherwise we would not be able to. So if I saw someone who was practicing behavior I disagreed majorly with, this would be an opportunity for me to be like "Hey, do you consider your behavior here when it effects ****"...

I don't think it is wrong that some people like their culture and the way they do things, but there is a problem when we decide as individuals to say our culture is superior to others...

I mean there's a lot of things I could say about being American that give me a headache. There are a lot of people here who don't care about the environment, who are happy to throw trash on the road and generally, don't care that they feed their kids tons of fast food, processed garbage and junk food, and are surprised when they suddenly have major health problems (especially mental) and other learning issues when they are older...

My grandmothers, both religious and strong matriarchs, made us sit down to a table and made us use proper language and forced us to finish what we got from our bowls. Said that it's not right that we waste food we got off our plate... well, they also say things about God and other things that other people here would call superstitious.. But we didn't talk much about religion growing up and now I see from their angle better as an adult, why for them having decorum in how you behave and treats others is so important nowadays...

My point is, you can watch Ann and you can say her views are homophobic... but you can't say anything else about her views. The rest of her views, actually, are things that are missing from our society. Such as self-respect, dignity, decorum, caring for your reputation and looking after others (some people would call this bossy )... there's nothing necessarily wrong with this... but she's one thing in a huge melting pot, which is Western culture. No single individual defines who we are as a society, and I think that's where diversity is a strength...

So yes, she is showing what I would call homophobic... but to judge a person based on one thing would be unfair. You have to see the whole picture, their upbringing and see where their views work and don't work... and where it doesn't work is that she's not able to share in some of the other changes in society that have made us a more positive and less restrictive way of expressing ourselves...

Anyway, I think that some could maybe borrow a lesson or two from Ann, but that also others could rub off on her... though maybe not literally

She is in her 70's, the end is nearer than farther... so she may be even more concerned about the end of life and her self-perception as a religious person may not be up to snuff, so she may have that in mind there when being environment that she may come off very wrong... and I think that is her right. She has sacrificed comfort to stick to her guns and to challenge others, and I think that's true for most devout people in 2010+... it's "risky" to say these views in the public, much less the homophobic stuff, but even just anything about religion... it's stigmatized now..

...but then again, what isn't stigmatized anymore? That's pretty much 100% of cultural discourse these days is stigmating this that and the other and having your (often strong) opinion about it... that is Western culture now, strongly opinionated and staunchly this or that... that mushy middle is slowly disappearing.

TDLR... Sorry, you have to read the post. #maruthuglife

Great post as always Maru..

[Robodog]

Excellent post Maru (i won't re-post it a 4th time!)

You are so right, the middle ground is getting lost.

"Anyone who disagrees with me... must be Hitler!" is the motto for lots of people these days

People like that have lost the art of seeing in subtle shades of grey; they boil everything down to either black or white and then judge accordingly.

It's really impatient and extreme.

Once they put a label on someone: Bang! That's it: "I don't have to listen or care about you anymore, and I can completely dismiss you, all because i've labelled you a (whatever)"

The joke is, that is what racists do: put people into extreme pigeon-holes, then judge them, then hate them for it - while ignoring their positive traits and their common humanity.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Excellent post Maru (i won't re-post it a 4th time!)

You are so right, the middle ground is getting lost.

"Anyone who disagrees with me... must be Hitler!" is the motto for lots of people these days

People like that have lost the art of seeing in subtle shades of grey; they boil everything down to either black or white and then judge accordingly.

It's really impatient and extreme.

Once they put a label on someone: Bang! That's it: "I don't have to listen or care about you anymore, and I can completely dismiss you, all because i've labelled you a (whatever)"

The joke is, that is what racists do: put people into extreme pigeon-holes, then judge them, then hate them for it - while ignoring their positive traits and their common humanity.

Excellent post! Very well expressed - I hope we hear more from you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Excellent post Maru (i won't re-post it a 4th time!)

You are so right, the middle ground is getting lost.

"Anyone who disagrees with me... must be Hitler!" is the motto for lots of people these days

People like that have lost the art of seeing in subtle shades of grey; they boil everything down to either black or white and then judge accordingly.

It's really impatient and extreme.

Once they put a label on someone: Bang! That's it: "I don't have to listen or care about you anymore, and I can completely dismiss you, all because i've labelled you a (whatever)"

The joke is, that is what racists do: put people into extreme pigeon-holes, then judge them, then hate them for it - while ignoring their positive traits and their common humanity.

Good stuff

[poppsywoppsy]

I have just re read the initial conversation between Ann and Shane J which I felt was very different from how she has been perceived on here.

I cannot seem to post it, can anyone post it for me as it gives a very different perspective and an agreement between Ann and Shane J over their differences before Andrew shoved his oar in.

I would be very grateful if someone could look for it and post it, thank you. Xx

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I have just re read the initial conversation between Ann and Shane J which I felt was very different from how she has been perceived on here.

I cannot seem to post it, can anyone post it for me as it gives a very different perspective and an agreement between Ann and Shane J over their differences before Andrew shoved his oar in.

I would be very grateful if someone could look for it and post it, thank you. Xx

Have you got a video link Poppsy?

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Have you got a video link Poppsy?

Can't seem to post anything like it.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Can't seem to post anything like it.

If you have a video link PM it me and I will post it

[Paula D]

I really don't know what this forum would do with someone in the house to accuse of being homophobic or racist. It's literally all you guys talk about. Boring now.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Paula D]

*without* I meant

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Maru

I think forget we vote for people (well we try to) who share similar values, so Ann represents a portion of the population. Does it make her views correct? No... but it shows we're not all the same and there are different reasons I think people have for voting someone in and what we may consider homophobic, may not really be that in other people's eyes... they see it as a value difference and you don't have to agree. But that is a democracy...

It's difficult for me to take an extreme opinion, because there's lots of things I could have an extreme opinion on... for example, people who are from cultures that don't treat animals well. It is a major issue for me, but if I were to encounter people and tell them "You are a cruel abuser!"... it does nothing for me, nothing for them, nothing for society.

We just have to remember that we live in a democracy and sometimes what is not fair for us, is fair for others, as their opinions (ideally) should have equal weight... in a democracy.

Now on a forum, the rules are different... we are allowed to play out those differences here and we voice our opinion whether otherwise we would not be able to. So if I saw someone who was practicing behavior I disagreed majorly with, this would be an opportunity for me to be like "Hey, do you consider your behavior here when it effects ****"...

I don't think it is wrong that some people like their culture and the way they do things, but there is a problem when we decide as individuals to say our culture is superior to others...

I mean there's a lot of things I could say about being American that give me a headache. There are a lot of people here who don't care about the environment, who are happy to throw trash on the road and generally, don't care that they feed their kids tons of fast food, processed garbage and junk food, and are surprised when they suddenly have major health problems (especially mental) and other learning issues when they are older...

My grandmothers, both religious and strong matriarchs, made us sit down to a table and made us use proper language and forced us to finish what we got from our bowls. Said that it's not right that we waste food we got off our plate... well, they also say things about God and other things that other people here would call superstitious.. But we didn't talk much about religion growing up and now I see from their angle better as an adult, why for them having decorum in how you behave and treats others is so important nowadays...

My point is, you can watch Ann and you can say her views are homophobic... but you can't say anything else about her views. The rest of her views, actually, are things that are missing from our society. Such as self-respect, dignity, decorum, caring for your reputation and looking after others (some people would call this bossy )... there's nothing necessarily wrong with this... but she's one thing in a huge melting pot, which is Western culture. No single individual defines who we are as a society, and I think that's where diversity is a strength...

So yes, she is showing what I would call homophobic... but to judge a person based on one thing would be unfair. You have to see the whole picture, their upbringing and see where their views work and don't work... and where it doesn't work is that she's not able to share in some of the other changes in society that have made us a more positive and less restrictive way of expressing ourselves...

Anyway, I think that some could maybe borrow a lesson or two from Ann, but that also others could rub off on her... though maybe not literally

She is in her 70's, the end is nearer than farther... so she may be even more concerned about the end of life and her self-perception as a religious person may not be up to snuff, so she may have that in mind there when being environment that she may come off very wrong... and I think that is her right. She has sacrificed comfort to stick to her guns and to challenge others, and I think that's true for most devout people in 2010+... it's "risky" to say these views in the public, much less the homophobic stuff, but even just anything about religion... it's stigmatized now..

...but then again, what isn't stigmatized anymore? That's pretty much 100% of cultural discourse these days is stigmatizing this that and the other and having your (often strong) opinion about it... that is Western culture now, strongly opinionated and staunchly this or that... that mushy middle is slowly disappearing.

TDLR... Sorry, you have to read the post. #maruthuglife

Good post.I agree with most of it.The only part I disagree with is that Ann is homophobic.I don’t think there’s any hate in her.Just a difference in how she sees the world and younger people today do.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Paula D

I really don't know what this forum would do with someone in the house to accuse of being homophobic or racist. It's literally all you guys talk about. Boring now.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

It is it's been done to death,none of us will all agree so I dont see why the constant battles we all believe what we believe.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Can't seem to post anything like it.

Ive Pmd you

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It is it's been done to death,none of us will all agree so I dont see why the constant battles we all believe what we believe.

I'm bored of it, we're all going around in circles. It's a lost cause on here .

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Excellent post Maru (i won't re-post it a 4th time!)

You are so right, the middle ground is getting lost.

"Anyone who disagrees with me... must be Hitler!" is the motto for lots of people these days

People like that have lost the art of seeing in subtle shades of grey; they boil everything down to either black or white and then judge accordingly.

It's really impatient and extreme.

Once they put a label on someone: Bang! That's it: "I don't have to listen or care about you anymore, and I can completely dismiss you, all because i've labelled you a (whatever)"

The joke is, that is what racists do: put people into extreme pigeon-holes, then judge them, then hate them for it - while ignoring their positive traits and their common humanity.

Spot on again!

Uk politics also reflects this lack of middle ground that we see now.The best position in almost if not every scenario is somewhere in middle.Not the extreme ideological fringes we’re seeing atm.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Spot on again!

Uk politics also reflects this lack of middle ground that we see now.The best position in almost if not every scenario is somewhere in middle.Not the extreme ideological fringes we’re seeing atm.

Couldn't agree more. There's some great posts on this thread, so much sense...

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Paula D

I really don't know what this forum would do with someone in the house to accuse of being homophobic or racist. It's literally all you guys talk about. Boring now.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

How right you are it becomes monotonous thread after thread .

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

How right you are it becomes monotonous thread after thread .

I've tried, my goodness I have tried.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Good post.I agree with most of it.The only part I disagree with is that Ann is homophobic.I don’t think there’s any hate in her.Just a difference in how she sees the world and younger people today do.

I agree, there's no hate in her (imo). But it depends on your definition of homophobia...

I am going by the one that is in the dictionary

homophobia
noun
1.
unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.

antipathy
noun, plural antipathies.
1.
a natural, basic, or habitual repugnance; aversion.
2.
an instinctive contrariety or opposition in feeling.
3.
an object of natural aversion or habitual dislike.

Now I don't think that she is afraid of homosexuals or has dislike, but her views (and that would be her religious and social viewpoint) has antipathy towards homosexuality as a rule. Those historic views are by design in direct opposition to homosexuality. While there isn't always hate there per say (at least not on BB and what little I know of UK politics), there is compassion missing there when homosexuality (like race) usually can't be changed... unless you're in the camp that believes it can be. (I'm not)

That is about the extent of her homophobia from what we've seen so far. The only thing I've looked up outside of BB is her views on conversion therapy and the written piece I could find was her opinion and basically saying we shouldn't not allow them to seek conversion therapy if they wanted... now you could argue the case for conversion therapy being extremely harmful psychologically, and I think there is validity there. I personally wouldn't send my kid to conversion therapy and it would be on me as the parent to make the adjustment if I had an issue there. I think it's somewhat naive to assume that while you're not in the hateful camp, others who are consider homosexuality is a sin aren't in that camp... I think it is opening them up to putting them in an abusive situation where more harm is being done than good, since I don't think homosexuality can be changed.

Anyway, for reference I'll paste that article... most links to it were dead.

Helping those who aren’t glad to be gay
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...glad-to-be-gay

[JerseyWins]

Too many pages to read what this thread is about anymore but

Originally Posted by Robodog

Excellent post Maru (i won't re-post it a 4th time!)

You are so right, the middle ground is getting lost.

"Anyone who disagrees with me... must be Hitler!" is the motto for lots of people these days

People like that have lost the art of seeing in subtle shades of grey; they boil everything down to either black or white and then judge accordingly.

It's really impatient and extreme.

Once they put a label on someone: Bang! That's it: "I don't have to listen or care about you anymore, and I can completely dismiss you, all because i've labelled you a (whatever)"

The joke is, that is what racists do: put people into extreme pigeon-holes, then judge them, then hate them for it - while ignoring their positive traits and their common humanity.

Great post. From what I've seen you have some of the best posts on the forum and explained/written so much better than I ever could.

[clairefromsomewhereinnort]

Beacuse many of the people backing her are too