[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

OK so the press has no influence on people's opinions, and yet magically, whenever something is in the press, it starts being parroted all over social media, in shops queues, on buses, and everywhere else that sheeple congregate to bleat within a matter of days.

Is it coincidence? Are people really this blind?

The idea that Labour would be "in bed" with the SNP and potentially having Scotland playing puppetmaster had an absolutely MASSIVE impact on the vote. That idea originated in the mainstream press.

The poor public perception of Ed Miliband, that he was not leadership material, that he was a bumbling sandwich-spiller, had an impact on Labour. Where did that one start? Oh yes, it was in the mainstream press.

The vilification of immigrants and "blame game" politics leading to the rise in popularity for UKIP - Mainstream press.

I could go on literally forever. The amount of propaganda that was flying around every single day, and being endlessly repeated by people who will believe anything they read, up here in Scotland during the referrendum campaign was mind-boggling.

Because people are just mindless drones waiting to have their heads filled with whatever the press decide to publish on this particular day right. The relationship between public opinion and media output is a bit more complicated than that and if anything I'd say the former influences the latter more than the other way around.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because people are just mindless drones waiting to have their heads filled with whatever the press decide to publish on this particular day right.

A good two thirds of people are, yes.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Who's to say they do think the same? Where the Sun is concerned I doubt there is a significant difference between Labour supporting readers and Tory ones. And anyway it's fairly natural for people to read the paper that is more likely to reflect their stance. Newspapers follow public sentiment more than they dictate it.

The collective statements give it away 'Labour spent all the money' 'people on benefits are scroungers' ' immigrants are cockroaches'

I would say those type of statements were predominantly from the right wing media and negatively influence their readership.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The collective statements give it away 'Labour spent all the money' 'people on benefits are scroungers' ' immigrants are cockroaches'

I would say those type of statements were predominantly from the right wing media and negatively influence their readership.

Now now Kizzy, those people might have deduced for themselves that Labour lost all of the country's money by carefully going through the party's spending records over their years in power and carefully contrasting them against studies of good economic practice and theories on economic growth.

They definitely, definitely didn't just read it in The Sun or hear it from their dad "who knows about these things". Because people are "smart". Apparently.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because people are just mindless drones waiting to have their heads filled with whatever the press decide to publish on this particular day right. The relationship between public opinion and media output is a bit more complicated than that and if anything I'd say the former influences the latter more than the other way around.

'While the Sun refined some of the tabloid features established by the Daily
Mirror, this paper also has to be understood in terms of its controversy and
explicit political engagement, as it is often attributed to having played a powerful role in cultural and political events. One of these is the general election of 1979, where, despite supporting the Labour party when it was launched, the Sun persuasively urged its readers to vote Tory.

As Chippindale and Horrie point out, the contribution made by newspapers to the outcome in general elections is extremely hard to judge (1999: 74). Yet, it is clear that Margaret Thatcher, elected prime minister, regarded the Sun’s support important as she sent Lamb a personal thank you letter and knighted him in the 1980 New Year’s honours list. Voters from social grade C2, the skilled manual labourers which formed the core of the Sun’s readership, had also made a difference during the election, with a nine per cent swing from Labour to Tory compared with the national average of 5,1 per cent '

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get....pdfmanuscript

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Now now Kizzy, those people might have deduced for themselves that Labour lost all of the country's money by carefully going through the party's spending records over their years in power and carefully contrasting them against studies of good economic practice and theories on economic growth.

They definitely, definitely didn't just read it in The Sun or hear it from their dad "who knows about these things". Because people are "smart". Apparently.

I'm not saying that people are not influenced by the media - I'm saying that it is now a much more open arena than it's ever been before and one title or one viewpoint does not have a monopoly on information. The media is simply one factor in the sphere of public opinion and public interaction with politics. It's true that the UK printed press lean more to the right overall but not by enough to swing a whole election. And y'know, sometimes these views do actually have some basis and are not just lies conjured up to line pockets. Yes Labour didn't cause the financial crash blah blah blah but there is a legitimate debate to be had over whether there was an element of mismanagement in the UK economy which failed to shield us from the worst of it.

But I suppose I am the one coming out with the nonsense view and that it's easier to stick with the belief that the press = tory so people = tory. The press hate immigrants so the people hate immigrants. Public opinion is simply defined by whatever the Sun prints today and that is only ever going to be cynical.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'm not saying that people are not influenced by the media - I'm saying that it is now a much more open arena than it's ever been before and one title or one viewpoint does not have a monopoly on information. The media is simply one factor in the sphere of public opinion and public interaction with politics. It's true that the UK printed press lean more to the right overall but not by enough to swing a whole election. And y'know, sometimes these views do actually have some basis and are not just lies conjured up to line pockets. Yes Labour didn't cause the financial crash blah blah blah but there is a legitimate debate to be had over whether there was an element of mismanagement in the UK economy which failed to shield us from the worst of it.

But I suppose I am the one coming out with the nonsense view and that it's easier to stick with the belief that the press = tory so people = tory. The press hate immigrants so the people hate immigrants. Public opinion is simply defined by whatever the Sun prints today and that is only ever going to be cynical.

Well, never read a newspaper in many many years, the only headlines I have seen are what have been on here, normally curtesy of Arista.
I did watch all the debates, if that counts.
For me the biggest influence on my vote is life in general and how it affects me and mine.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Wow, condensing and insulting, what an attractive combination.

What many fail to appreciate is that the reason the conservatives got in is because the voters looked at what had been achieved over the last 5 years and agree with the approach being taken to tackle the deficit. I don't care what side of the political divide people are on. It is only with a strong economy that we can afford to pay for services for those in need. All we would do is get in further debt and go bankrupt if we attempt to sustain services at a level we cannot afford.

The amount of Food Banks in this country has doubled since the Coalition and it'll probably double before the next Election. The working class will continue to suffer under the Tories' reign as they always have and nothing will change.

The Tories are doing what is easy instead of what is right and they're building this 'better economy' on top of the bones of the working class. The cuts are going to kill people if they go ahead, that's pretty much a fact. The people who need help the most will suffer because Cameron's too busy on his knees with his mouth open wide to the people who put us in this mess in the first place.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Well, never read a newspaper in many many years, the only headlines I have seen are what have been on here, normally curtesy of Arista.
I did watch all the debates, if that counts.
For me the biggest influence on my vote is life in general and how it affects me and mine.

Me too, I take no notice of newspapers.
I do however know people who hang on their every word, as to Mirror readers or Daily Mail readers and that other ragbag of a paper the Sun.

Like you too ,most of the headlines I have seen from the likes of Sun, Daily mail etc; and others are what arista posts on here.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'm not saying that people are not influenced by the media - I'm saying that it is now a much more open arena than it's ever been before and one title or one viewpoint does not have a monopoly on information. The media is simply one factor in the sphere of public opinion and public interaction with politics. It's true that the UK printed press lean more to the right overall but not by enough to swing a whole election. And y'know, sometimes these views do actually have some basis and are not just lies conjured up to line pockets. Yes Labour didn't cause the financial crash blah blah blah but there is a legitimate debate to be had over whether there was an element of mismanagement in the UK economy which failed to shield us from the worst of it.

But I suppose I am the one coming out with the nonsense view and that it's easier to stick with the belief that the press = tory so people = tory. The press hate immigrants so the people hate immigrants. Public opinion is simply defined by whatever the Sun prints today and that is only ever going to be cynical.

You can't counter a view by espousing the very views you're suggesting aren't influencing people...

There's a legitimate debate that the employment figures we currently have are not a true representation of who is actually in employment at this moment in the UK, that the amount of government borrowing over the last 5yrs dwarfs anything from the previous 13, that the average household is Ł1100 worse off under the conservatives.

I don't believe anyone had these debates as they were blindsided by the faux nationalism of the right wing media purporting the scourge approaching from the north?
The same govt who sells any asset we have to foreign investors, French nuclear, American frackers, Chinese developers.... it's all subjective this 'national pride' isn't it in the grand scheme of things as the sex pistols said 'ever get the feeling you're being cheated?'

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The amount of Food Banks in this country has doubled since the Coalition and it'll probably double before the next Election. The working class will continue to suffer under the Tories' reign as they always have and nothing will change.

The Tories are doing what is easy instead of what is right and they're building this 'better economy' on top of the bones of the working class. The cuts are going to kill people if they go ahead, that's pretty much a fact. The people who need help the most will suffer because Cameron's too busy on his knees with his mouth open wide to the people who put us in this mess in the first place.

Excellent summing up of the situation.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You can't counter a view by espousing the very views you're suggesting aren't influencing people...

There's a legitimate debate that the employment figures we currently have are not a true representation of who is actually in employment at this moment in the UK, that the amount of government borrowing over the last 5yrs dwarfs anything from the previous 13, that the average household is Ł1100 worse off under the conservatives.

I don't believe anyone had these debates as they were blindsided by the faux nationalism of the right wing media purporting the scourge approaching from the north?
The same govt who sells any asset we have to foreign investors, French nuclear, American frackers, Chinese developers.... it's all subjective this 'national pride' isn't it in the grand scheme of things as the sex pistols said 'ever get the feeling you're being cheated?'

So am I just victim of Sun propaganda as well lol?

Yes there are legitimate debates to be had over all these issues, its the beauty of politics (sort of) that nothing is black and white. Parties engage with these debates, people engage with them and yes, newspapers engage with them too. But even just one person's decision of who to vote for will typically be formed out of a melting pot of considerations, I still say it's too simplistic to reduce the vast majority of people's decision down to: who the Sun told them to vote for.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

So am I just victim of Sun propaganda as well lol?

Yes there are legitimate debates to be had over all these issues, its the beauty of politics (sort of) that nothing is black and white. Parties engage with these debates, people engage with them and yes, newspapers engage with them too. But even just one person's decision of who to vote for will typically be formed out of a melting pot of considerations, I still say it's too simplistic to reduce the vast majority of people's decision down to: who the Sun told them to vote for.

Well put MTVN. I'm rather tired of the accusations that if you don't vote labour you're a "mindless drone".

[joeysteele]

Those who vote Labour are a bit sick of all being called nothing but left wing militants too.

The point is there is good and bad in all parties.
I cheered at some Conservative wins in the election,Rory Stewart in Penrith,James Wharton amazingly and deservedly holding on in Stockton,to name just 2.

The vast majority of people who vote Conservative are decent ,it is the hardliners who have little grace about them.
In victory,they enjoy rubbing noses in the defeat rather than show a bit of grace.

Most of the people who vote Labour who are currently heavily against the Conservatives, are those who have been affected by or know those affected by the obscene cruel cuts made last time.
They also know from the Conservative party's own mouth, that they will be making even more billions of cuts to the same people again.
They are also no more militant than hardline Conservatives and are equally decent people.

It is the hardline Conservatives who never acknowledge those cuts could even be the wrong thing to do again,they criticise Labour supporters all the time, avoiding even mentioning such cuts.
So all the Labour voters get for standing up against that, is the accusations of being left wing militants and some even saying Labour should never win power again.

Maybe the Conservative hardliners would prefer a one party state in the UK where only the Conservatives have power for good.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The amount of Food Banks in this country has doubled since the Coalition and it'll probably double before the next Election. The working class will continue to suffer under the Tories' reign as they always have and nothing will change.

The Tories are doing what is easy instead of what is right and they're building this 'better economy' on top of the bones of the working class. The cuts are going to kill people if they go ahead, that's pretty much a fact. The people who need help the most will suffer because Cameron's too busy on his knees with his mouth open wide to the people who put us in this mess in the first place.

food poverty has not risen in the UK (unless you know differently) but food banks are a new thing and more are opening but its just tpoo simple and wrong to say

that must mean food poverty is on the rise, as it is not

You have just fell for a bit of labour spin


(in fact it seems like you may have ingested the whole years worth and now have spinarrhea)

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Those who vote Labour are a bit sick of all being called nothing but left wing militants too.

The point is there is good and bad in all parties.
I cheered at some Conservative wins in the election,Rory Stewart in Penrith,James Wharton amazingly and deservedly holding on in Stockton,to name just 2.

The vast majority of people who vote Conservative are decent ,it is the hardliners who have little grace about them.
In victory,they enjoy rubbing noses in the defeat rather than show a bit of grace.

Most of the people who vote Labour who are currently heavily against the Conservatives, are those who have been affected by or know those affected by the obscene cruel cuts made last time.
They also know from the Conservative party's own mouth, that they will be making even more billions of cuts to the same people again.
They are also no more militant than hardline Conservatives and are equally decent people.

It is the hardline Conservatives who never acknowledge those cuts could even be the wrong thing to do again,they criticise Labour supporters all the time, avoiding even mentioning such cuts.
So all the Labour voters get for standing up against that, is the accusations of being left wing militants and some even saying Labour should never win power again.

Maybe the Conservative hardliners would prefer a one party state in the UK where only the Conservatives have power for good.

Now you're talking JoeyOnly kidding

[Josy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

food poverty has not risen in the UK (unless you know differently) but food banks are a new thing and more are opening but its just tpoo simple and wrong to say

that must mean food poverty is on the rise, as it is not

You have just fell for a bit of labour spin


(in fact it seems like you may have ingested the whole years worth and now have spinarrhea)

Food poverty definitely has risen, by 38%.

1,084,604 were given emergency food in 2014/2015 so far

29% of those were due to benefit delays
26% were due to lo income
13% were due to benefits changes

The sole reason the government dismiss food bank statistics is because it rubbishes their claims that the plan is working and doesn't fit in with their manipulations of figures.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Josy

Food poverty definitely has risen, by 38%.

1,084,604 were given emergency food in 2014/2015 so far

29% of those were due to benefit delays
26% were due to lo income
13% were due to benefits changes

The sole reason the government dismiss food bank statistics is because it rubbishes their claims that the plan is working and doesn't fit in with their manipulations of figures.

hang on where are your sources and what are you measuring it against?

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by Josy

Food poverty definitely has risen, by 38%.

1,084,604 were given emergency food in 2014/2015 so far

29% of those were due to benefit delays
26% were due to lo income
13% were due to benefits changes

The sole reason the government dismiss food bank statistics is because it rubbishes their claims that the plan is working and doesn't fit in with their manipulations of figures.

The receipts have been delivered.

Cameron ALWAYS dodges the food bank questions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i dont recall food-banks in the 80s during the miners strikes or in the 70s with the strikes and powercuts?

both those decades food was not only much more expensive but harder to get as there were no big supermarkets like today?

[Crimson Dynamo]

i wonder how many foodbank attendees drink and smoke or gamble?

where are the stats on that?

I heard a foodbank centre admit last week people arrive via taxi sometimes (5 live) because they dont want to walk there

[Crimson Dynamo]

Robin Aitken MBE is a former BBC journalist (and an ex-employee of mine at the Today programme). He is a staunch and fairly right-ish Conservative, if I remember correctly. He said that rather than bringing shame or disgrace upon the country, ‘Food banks are a marvellous example of how the best instincts of society can be harnessed into voluntary, grass-roots action to help people who are most in need. Far from helping, I think state involvement would be toxic.’ That seems to be right, doesn’t it? If there is money to be spent on alleviating poverty, then use it to raise the minimum wage so that fewer people need the food banks. And leave the running of the food banks to people like Robin Aitken.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnist...of-food-banks/

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...g-Britain.html

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Josy

Food poverty definitely has risen, by 38%.

1,084,604 were given emergency food in 2014/2015 so far

29% of those were due to benefit delays
26% were due to lo income
13% were due to benefits changes

The sole reason the government dismiss food bank statistics is because it rubbishes their claims that the plan is working and doesn't fit in with their manipulations of figures.

Is that 1,084,604 people rely on emergency food (because that's what your statement suggests), or that food banks have been used 1,084,604 times? I just don't believe one in sixty of the population rely on food banks to eat.

That particular set of figures has been manipulated so many times by so many different people, I find it hard to believe anyone where those stats are concerned.

Food banks were around during the Labour government, they've increased. That's a good thing, isn't it? I acknowledge that lots of people are in need but don't believe it's all the fault of the Tories any more than the recession was totally the fault of Labour. My own local council is one of the fastest in the country to paying benefits to those in need. It's a Tory council. They've also not raised the council tax for eight years and yet services have improved. The Tory councillors in my district council have just increased from 36 to 40, so 40 out of 45 councillors are Tory. They must be doing something right.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Josy

Food poverty definitely has risen, by 38%.

1,084,604 were given emergency food in 2014/2015 so far

29% of those were due to benefit delays
26% were due to lo income
13% were due to benefits changes

The sole reason the government dismiss food bank statistics is because it rubbishes their claims that the plan is working and doesn't fit in with their manipulations of figures.

You'll get a likely backlash for this post but well done for pointing it out again.

I am not bothered what the figures are, the fact that 'anyone' has to rely on food banks at all in the UK in the 21st century.
Especially on the scale usage has increased over just the last 5 years is a disgrace to the govt; in power at the time.