[Beso]

His fans should watch finding neverland

[Crimson Dynamo]

20 mins in and its looking good for MJ

[Amy Jade]

Vicky I spoke to my mum and she basically said she was a bit ignorant to facts and thought Michael had been prosecuted for molestation and after seeing the first part of the documentary and listening to me talk about it and the inconsistencies she believes he is innocent and being used for money.

She also said she has read some facts today that have made her even more confident that he was not guilty of molestation but either way as he is passed sadly his name cannot be cleared as easily as it once was.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Vicky I spoke to my mum and she basically said she was a bit ignorant to facts and thought Michael had been prosecuted for molestation and after seeing the first part of the documentary and listening to me talk about it and the inconsistencies she believes he is innocent and being used for money.

She also said she has read some facts today that have made her even more confident that he was not guilty of molestation but either way as he is passed sadly his name cannot be cleared as easily as it once was.

Yeah that makes sense..kazanne basically said the same thing. I was getting so stuck on..basically how the actual doc could make anyone think he was innocent and didnt really consider that the doc made people look into it a bit more and THAT was what changed their minds, not the actual documentary Having a blonde day I think

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder what facts ?

From where

[Kazanne]

So they WERE adults when they testified the second time. and why didn't he tell his mom when she asked him he was a grown up then.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

So they WERE adults when they testified the second time

They are like robots.
It's like they are talking about what they bought at a store.

There's no passion, no emotion.
Even talking about things they say he did, he didn't like.

Even from the Mother of one so far.
All that seems to have upset them is that Michael Jackson had stopped contacting them much.

As for the underwear blood issue.
He went to get them, he says, saw blood on them and just threw them away..
Not worrying about his blood on them.

Oh come on, for goodness sake, as a child if I was bleeding even from a cut, I'd have near panicked.
I'd certainly have if blood was on my underwear.
I'd have gone straight to my parents.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They are like robots.
It's like they are talking about what they bought at a store.

There's no passion, no emotion.
Even talking about things they say he did, he didn't like.

Even from the Mother of one so far.
All that seems to have upset them is that Michael Jackson had stopped contacting them much.

As for the underwear blood issue.
He went to get them, he says, saw blood on them and just threw them away..
Not worrying about his blood on them.

Oh come on, for goodness sake, as a child if I was bleeding even from a cut, I'd have near panicked.
I'd certainly have if blood was on my underwear.
I'd have gone straight to my parents.

Well if whatever they say happened surely he wouldn't have his pants on,and whats this they are actually at the funeral !!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well if whatever they say happened surely he wouldn't have his pants on,and whats this they are actually at the funeral !!!

Well indeed yes, extremely good point.
Very well thought out Kazanne.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well if whatever they say happened surely he wouldn't have his pants on,and whats this they are actually at the funeral !!!

I may have come to actually have even less trust in what they are saying than I did last night.

What I will say there seems there has been a really cold emotionless relationship with at least one of the Mothers.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I may have come to actually have even less trust in what they are saying than I did last night.

What I will say there seems there has been a really cold emotionless relationship with at least one of the Mothers.

Joey it all seems very very bizarre

[Beso]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They are like robots.
It's like they are talking about what they bought at a store.

There's no passion, no emotion.
Even talking about things they say he did, he didn't like.

Even from the Mother of one so far.
All that seems to have upset them is that Michael Jackson had stopped contacting them much.

As for the underwear blood issue.
He went to get them, he says, saw blood on them and just threw them away..
Not worrying about his blood on them.

Oh come on, for goodness sake, as a child if I was bleeding even from a cut, I'd have near panicked.
I'd certainly have if blood was on my underwear.
I'd have gone straight to my parents.

No.passion, no emotion.....hmmmmmm. ..I wonder who stole that from them.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No.passion, no emotion.....hmmmmmm. ..I wonder who stole that from them.

They were talking about being abused they say, of lying most of their lives up to now,
Now, they say, telling all with the unpleasant details.

With no emotion or passion at all.

Like reading from a prepared script, you get more passion from a newsreader reading the news.

The relief of being able to now reveal their story, particularly as to the abuse the allege took place.
Should have opened up loads of emotion.

A bit of anger at what happened, had it been true, would have surfaced.

They came across as robotic as the first night.

I doubt passion and emotion has been robbed from them.
I'd bet probably plenty of emotion and passion came forward when the court threw out their claim on the Jackson estate.
I'd like to see any footage of when they got that news.

If they lose this appeal coming up soon now after this documentary.
I'd again bet probably, passion and emotion would surface.

Since their gambling of having this documentary done at this time only, would have failed in the purpose they, (in my view), had for it to help secure hopeful success for money from the Jackson estate.

I feel as sure as I can be, there'd be probably lots of passion, emotion and anger, if we could see it then.

I watched them in both nights of this documentary.
Very closely.
They came across as mixing truth and an invention of lies, to cloud the issue
It's a clever process but things have to add up.

For me, therein was the problem, things didn't add up.
There was no change of tone, nothing, just like they were reading notes.
Yet this is an issue they were attempting to present that has affected their lives right up to now.

For me that attempt failed and rather badly too.
No way would I trust these 2 as believable or trustworthy and likely never as reliable witnesses.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

With no emotion or passion at all.

With all due respect Joey you focus on this a lot like it's something that's supposed to be universally agreed upon but frankly in my opinion you're completely wrong and off the mark, and don't have a good read on what would be a realistic amount of emotion to be expressing (and which emotions). I don't know if you're expecting tears, wailing and Hollywood drama? My wife works with people with serious childhood trauma every single day (yes, honestly, far worse than Wade and James' accounts which people seem to think are graphic. You have no idea.) and their emotional state is perfectly in keeping with people recounting past trauma.

They come across as anxious, bewildered and deeply, deeply sad to plenty of us. You might not be able to see it; but you need to stop stating emphatically that they do it "with no emotion" and realise that that's just your own observation and not a universal truth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

snip/.
No way would I trust these 2 as believable or trustworthy and likely never as reliable witnesses.

would you trust Jackson with your 7 year old son to stay at Neverland alone in his room?

yes or no?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They were talking about being abused they say, of lying most of their lives up to now,
Now, they say, telling all with the unpleasant details.

With no emotion or passion at all.

Like reading from a prepared script, you get more passion from a newsreader reading the news.

The relief of being able to now reveal their story, particularly as to the abuse the allege took place.
Should have opened up loads of emotion.

A bit of anger at what happened, had it been true, would have surfaced.

They came across as robotic as the first night.

I doubt passion and emotion has been robbed from them.
I'd bet probably plenty of emotion and passion came forward when the court threw out their claim on the Jackson estate.
I'd like to see any footage of when they got that news.

If they lose this appeal coming up soon now after this documentary.
I'd again bet probably, passion and emotion would surface.

Since their gambling of having this documentary done at this time only, would have failed in the purpose they, (in my view), had for it to help secure hopeful success for money from the Jackson estate.

I feel as sure as I can be, there'd be probably lots of passion, emotion and anger, if we could see it then.

I watched them in both nights of this documentary.
Very closely.
They came across as mixing truth and an invention of lies, to cloud the issue
It's a clever process but things have to add up.

For me, therein was the problem, things didn't add up.
There was no change of tone, nothing, just like they were reading notes.
Yet this is an issue they were attempting to present that has affected their lives right up to now.

For me that attempt failed and rather badly too.
No way would I trust these 2 as believable or trustworthy and likely never as reliable witnesses.

What about the young cancer victim claiming jacko fondled him..?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

So they WERE adults when they testified the second time. and why didn't he tell his mom when she asked him he was a grown up then.

James didn't testify a second time, only Wade.


This second part is very powerful, I f8nd them both very believable

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

James didn't testify a second time, only Wade.


This second part is very powerful, I f8nd them both very believable

I know ,I couldn't remember which one even so he was an adult

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

So they WERE adults when they testified the second time. and why didn't he tell his mom when she asked him he was a grown up then.

He explained clearly that he was worried about losing his career.

[UserSince2005]

As someone who was abused as a child I completely 100% relate to wade’s story. He’s telling the truth. I don’t think someone could explain his experience in the way he does if it wasn’t true.

[UserSince2005]

This documentary is actually so important. This is what molestation looks like!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

This documentary is actually so important. This is what molestation looks like!

I was also abused as a kid , I would say not all experiances are the same,mine was not as bad as some but bad enough for me to tell someone straight away.the person in question eventually went to jail, that is how it affected me,I had to tell someone

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I was also abused as a kid , I would say not all experiances are the same,mine was not as bad as some but bad enough for me to tell someone straight away.the person in question eventually went to jail, that is how it affected me,I had to tell someone

Yeah anything that traumatic I agree you'd tell someone or at least show warning signs, but as you say every experience is different. But non of their stories add up.

I haven't watched it yet ,but the graphic details of the abuse sounds dodgy to me . Why is it talked about in that way. And the business about blood that I'm hearing sounds stupid , surely you'd tell someone .

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah anything that traumatic I agree you'd tell someone or at least show warning signs, but as you say every experience is different. But non of their stories add up.

I haven't watched it yet ,but the graphic details of the abuse sounds dodgy to me . Why is it talked about in that way. And the business about blood that I'm hearing sounds stupid , surely you'd tell someone .

I was 9 Goldheart and I told my brother on the same day it happened,so to leave it for 2 decades is strange to me,I don't think there is any need for the graphic details either .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I was 9 Goldheart and I told my brother on the same day it happened,so to leave it for 2 decades is strange to me,I don't think there is any need for the graphic details either .

With all due respect Kaz, people react differently and people waiting years to face child sexual abuse is quite common