[Vicky.]

Also I dont think its fair really to write off those questioning the official line as conspiracy theorists. Mainly because conspiracy theories tend to be quite ridiculous and go against mountains of evidence.

While there is no evidence the parents did anything, there is also no actual evidence of an abduction either.

The only facts of this case really are, the parents left her alone, and then she disappeared. And has never been found.

[Marsh.]

I just think conspiracy theories around a big government cover up is ridiculous.

There's just no reason to cover up the death accidental or otherwise of a 3 year old girl and then continue to allow the search/investigation to continue.

[Vicky.]

I don't see what the government would have to gain by covering anything up (in this case, not in general)

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Also I dont think its fair really to write off those questioning the official line as conspiracy theorists. Mainly because conspiracy theories tend to be quite ridiculous and go against mountains of evidence.

While there is no evidence the parents did anything, there is also no actual evidence of an abduction either.

The only facts of this case really are, the parents left her alone, and then she disappeared. And has never been found.

I wouldn't class you as a conspiracy theorist, but I would class some of the links provided to show the McCanns guilt, of being home to conspiracy theorists. Let's be clear, they are not merely asking questions. The implications are clear, and they believe it's a complete travesty that the McCanns have got away with murdering/covering up the accidental death of their daughter. That's a conspiracy theory, whichever way it's painted.

[Tom4784]

I think she's dead but I honestly don't think the parents did it, someone would have slipped up by now or substantial DNA evidence would have come to light. It's damn near impossible to cover up a violent crime if the crime scene is known by the police, they would have left some trace no matter how meticulous they could have been in covering it up.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zee

Tbh I don't know all that much about the ins and outs and timelines, I'm just basing this on what people have said in this thread - as Vicky said (I just looked it up) the car was hired weeks after she disappeared. They could have all been sedated, I don't know, somebody said they had admitted to sedating their kids. Doctors can get things wrong; and anaesthesia/sedation is a totally different area of medicine, perhaps they weren't too careful about the dosage they gave the kids or maybe they gave them the right amount, but for some reason Madeleine woke up? I don't know. The police dog thing is a very interesting aspect though.

What I wonder though is just because the dogs detected the smell doesn't mean it was Madeleine who they were detecting, does it? Because it says on that website that cadaver dogs have been used to find bodies that have been hidden away for years... so isn't it possible that all of their evidence is circumstantial? Yes, they smelled the presence of a body... but it doesn't have to be Madeleine's... and yes they detected blood on some things... but people get cuts and scrapes all the time. Hmmm...

..yeah, I'm sure that was said at the time..2/3yr old do get a lot of cuts and bruises and especially running around swimming pools etc in their bare feet..but that's another thing for me...the last pictures of Kate with Madeleine looked like a mum/family enjoying a holiday..and I know they left them in the apartment alone, that I have no understanding for but I just don't see the 'cold' people they would have to be to have covered anything up....I think the timeline was only around one and a half hours from when they went out to dinner until she was missing and they were with friends having a meal most of that time, so it would all seem an awful lot to fit into that space of time if they were involved....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think she's dead but I honestly don't think the parents did it, someone would have slipped up by now or substantial DNA evidence would have come to light. It's damn near impossible to cover up a violent crime if the crime scene is known by the police, they would have left some trace no matter how meticulous they could have been in covering it up.

..I think also on the night and in the days/weeks afterwards, their body language would have given it away or they would completely crumbled if they just did something in 'shock' and an immediate reaction because they would know that their daughter was dead in reality...how could they not react to that unless they were completely cold people, which I don't believe they are....

[Vicky.]

She seems to be quite emotional to me, and a bit unstable tbh..but given the circumstances I would say that was normal. He comes across cold.

He may just have an unfortunate face/expressions, but it seems he smirks quite often when talking about Madeleine too :S

[Kazanne]

Why are some people so sure she didn't wander off? the patio doors were left open.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

She seems to be quite emotional to me, and a bit unstable tbh..but given the circumstances I would say that was normal. He comes across cold.

He may just have an unfortunate face/expressions, but it seems he smirks quite often when talking about Madeleine too :S

She seems to be controlled by him,I noticed he butts in many a time when she is talking,he may be trying to help her out,but he's a strange one allright.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

She seems to be quite emotional to me, and a bit unstable tbh..but given the circumstances I would say that was normal. He comes across cold.

He may just have an unfortunate face/expressions, but it seems he smirks quite often when talking about Madeleine too :S

..I don't know, I just think that a husband could seem 'cold' if he was trying to control or feel as though he had to control his emotions to be what he thinks his wife would need him to be in a situation like this...to me that's more a sign that it's just him/his character because if he was hiding something, he maybe would want to appear more upset and emotional to garner sympathy...I just think of those parents/relatives etc who have harmed their children and then they go on TV and 'act' an appeal for their whereabouts....

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Why are some people so sure she didn't wander off? the patio doors were left open.

I think there might have been some sightings of a small child wandering round alone if she had just wandered off

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

The dog stuff is not as definitive as has been stated in this thread. If you go back a couple of pages MTVN posted a site exposing the myths about the conspiracy theorists. There is a good section on the dogs, what they actually do, and what actually happened.

I'm reading the cwporter one just now, the one that discusses why the McCanns may be guilty, I'm gonna read the one refuting it afterwards just for the sake of clarity (don't want to read the website refuting the one I'm currently reading before I read the one I'm currently reading, it'd be confusing) - depending on whether or not they are covering up her death - they have either been extremely lucky or extremely unlucky that there are so many circumstances that muddy the waters as to whether or not they are guilty...

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Why are some people so sure she didn't wander off? the patio doors were left open.

I'm reading the website that claims they are guilty, and the McCanns have certainly given a lot of conflicting statements and withheld information that logically they should have been forthcoming about... but then there are also perfectly logical explanations for those things.

They said that they left the doors unlocked in case there was a fire so the kids could escape, and then later said Madeleine wasn't strong enough to open the doors by herself... so then why make that original statement? Bizarre... my responses are gonna change as I move onto the other website I can just tell haha

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think there might have been some sightings of a small child wandering round alone if she had just wandered off

Yes there would, but wasn't there talk of some building work going on and also Portugal is littered with shafts etc,whats to say she hasn't slipped down one of those ,and of course there is the Ocean.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm reading the website that claims they are guilty, and the McCanns have certainly given a lot of conflicting statements and withheld information that logically they should have been forthcoming about... but then there are also perfectly logical explanations for those things.

They said that they left the doors unlocked in case there was a fire so the kids could escape, and then later said Madeleine wasn't strong enough to open the doors by herself... so then why make that original statement? Bizarre... my responses are gonna change as I move onto the other website I can just tell haha

I certainly wouldn't like to be anyone working on this,there is just no end to it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Yes there would, but wasn't there talk of some building work going on and also Portugal is littered with shafts etc,whats to say she hasn't slipped down one of those ,and of course there is the Ocean.

Getting to the ocean alone, unseen, would be quite hard for a 3/4 year old IMO. Though I guess nothing is impossible

I have never been to Portugal so didn't know about shafts and such, but I guess that could be a possibility. I would hope the police would have checked avenues like that though

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm reading the cwporter one just now, the one that discusses why the McCanns may be guilty, I'm gonna read the one refuting it afterwards just for the sake of clarity (don't want to read the website refuting the one I'm currently reading before I read the one I'm currently reading, it'd be confusing) - depending on whether or not they are covering up her death - they have either been extremely lucky or extremely unlucky that there are so many circumstances that muddy the waters as to whether or not they are guilty...

Never before has anything been any truer :S

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think also on the night and in the days/weeks afterwards, their body language would have given it away or they would completely crumbled if they just did something in 'shock' and an immediate reaction because they would know that their daughter was dead in reality...how could they not react to that unless they were completely cold people, which I don't believe they are....

Did you not watch one of the body language videos I posted

[Z]

I've got to say as well, Jane Tanner seems like an extremely unreliable witness.

[Marsh.]

That statement about David Payne is very disturbing, especially since he was the last one to see her other than her parents.

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Why are some people so sure she didn't wander off? the patio doors were left open.

But was the patio doors open when they returned and the curtain moved?
I doubt she'd have fixed them back into place if she walked out through them, and I don't think she'd have been able to get the shutter on the window open.

Originally Posted by Kazanne

She seems to be controlled by him,I noticed he butts in many a time when she is talking,he may be trying to help her out,but he's a strange one allright.

I noticed that on Crimewatch. A lot of "As Gerry said" and "Gerry convinced me this...".

I mean it's probably just him being the stronger person and helping his wife through it, she seems completely broken by it. But it was something that made me think too.

[Me. I Am Salman]

can someone sum everything up please

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Salman!

can someone sum everything up please

You'd be better watching the Crimewatch reconstruction. It's on youtube.

[GypsyGoth]

Maybe her wonky eye is a clue.

[the truth]

so leaving the patio doors open makes no sense on any level....i.e. if theres a fire they cant escape through the doors as maddie wasn't strong enough to open them? so basically they've left the doors open in a foreign country with 3 defenceless babies alone and one it seems was snatched. insane