[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Also the loss of Scottish votes would admittedly hit Labour the hardest but not as bad as people think,even on the current opinion polls if they were to happen in an election, without Scotland Labour would still have an overall majority.

True, but I personally suspect that's just an accurate representation of just how much the Tories have managed to **** people off this term :lol:. Combined with a very weak and unconvincing leader... they've really given themselves a mauling.

They got in last time by tricking lower-middle and even some working class people into believing their lies and rhetoric. Before that election, I was working with a girl who had two young kids, working but definitely relying on Tax Credits, etc... and she had totally had her head turned towards the Tories and their promises. She voted for them. And then of course, many of their policies directly impacted on her, and she felt utterly duped. Not to mention Tory austerity measures absolutely destroying the north-of-England town she lives in (thankfully, I don't live there myself any more)... the place is in ruins. The Tories managed to swindle their way to a LOT of these sorts of votes last time. People voting for them and then being the worst affected by the things that they've done. It's shameful really, but then, they wre idiots to believe their propaganda in the first place.

Those people will vote against them in force next time. I'd like to think at every election ever after, too... but people are generally stupid and have very short memories, so the Tories will probably be back within a few terms, people sucked in by their bollocks promises all over again.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It would disrupt the flow of trade with what would inevitably be an important trading partner if independence were to go ahead, and it would have a severe impact on the many companies that are currently operating in both Scotland and England. It would inevitable cost the economy of the rest of the UK double-digit billions per year. The risks of denying a currency union far outweigh the risks of allowing one. Therefore, there would be one. If independence was gained (it won't be, but hypothetically) and it was no longer of any use as a bargaining chip, London would quickly backpeddle and a currency agreement would be reached.

I'm aware that it's not just the Tories. Although let's not pretend there are "three" parties - there are two as there always have been - and Scottish independence is bad news for Labour, too. Scotland votes labour pretty heavily. All of those votes being instantly taken away from the Westminster elections would be very bad news for them.

I don't see that being hugely problematic really, a currency union is not a prerequisite for free and unrestricted trade. The risks of a currency union are far greater imo, you don't really have to look further than the Euro and the last few years to see the dangers of it. The only person who this announcement from Westminster seems to have surprised is Alex Salmond and the SNP themselves, why should the Bank of England make themselves responsible and have to act as a guarantee for the debt of what would now be a foreign country? If the same happened as a few years ago and Scotland's two biggest banks once again find themselves facing ruin then it's pretty understandable why the UK government would not want to be forced to bail them out again

[Parmy]

vote no...it's will be a right hassle changing passports,banknotes,coins,driving licences,tv license,dog licence,car tax..etc etc etc..why bother we are fine how we are.

[arista]

Utter Bliss


http://www.theguardian.com/media/gre...il-alexsalmond

[joeysteele]

I really think the question that also needs answering is in fact just what will be the situation if Scotland does vote for independence in September as to the 2015 general election.

There is an expected 18 month transition period before independence is finally in force so what of the Scots voting in the 2015 general election.
That would to me be ridiculous since by March 2016,the Scottish MPs would have no authority at all to sit in the Parliament post that date.

There has even been an even more daft propsal that the UK general elections be put back a year if Scotland vote for independence.
No thank you, at all from me as to that, not another year of this heartless and misleading Govt for me,I'd have rather the election a year early than a year later.

As it stands,were Labour to win say a 30 overall majority then even with the Scots vote seats gone that would still leave Labour with an overall majority albeit a narrow single figure one.
It is however a question that really needs detailing clearly,this is something all the voters of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should know the solid answer to and very soon, now preferably.

[arista]

Alex Salmond tells Sky News the Chancellor is "bluffing" when he says independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep the pound.


Bang On Right Alex


http://news.sky.com/story/1212914/sa...d-losing-pound

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Alex Salmond tells Sky News the Chancellor is "bluffing" when he says independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep the pound.


Bang On Right Alex


http://news.sky.com/story/1212914/sa...d-losing-pound

I think he is right on that arista, no matter what is being said now, it would be likely the best thing in all economical sense for both Scotland and what is left of the UK if Scotland had the same currency.
I also think it would come about too by the time Scotland was to be made fully independent.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by arista

Alex Salmond tells Sky News the Chancellor is "bluffing" when he says independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep the pound.


Bang On Right Alex


http://news.sky.com/story/1212914/sa...d-losing-pound

Its just another "project fear" attempt to scare people. and that Spanish feckwit can also shut his trap with his "we all know you are talking about the Catalans really" pish

[arista]

The new Scottish Pound



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ound-coin.html

[Josy]

Never will I use money with Fat Heed on it

[Josy]

Got to be an April fool that

[Jessica.]

Irish Pounds had animals on them in the past, nice of Scotland to carry on the tradition now that we have Euro, I wonder why they picked a hippopotamus though.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

The thing that makes me smile about this that most English people I speak to can't wait for Scotland to be independent, most of us would positively enourage it. And yet, when an English person says, good, can't wait for it to happen, Scottish people don't see happy with that and would prefer us to be upset at the prospect.

Alex Salmond also said that they will "decided later whether or not Scotland will join the EU". Which will be quite a dilemma for all those Scottish people living and working in England who will suddenly need a visa to be able to visit England, let alone live and work here, as do other nationalities who's countries are not EU members.

There isn't the hatred from ordinary English people toward the Scottish that a lot of Scottish people harbour toward the English, mainly I think because the English are not still grimly hanging on to old slights inflicted on them by people hundreds of years dead, and for which the vast majority of English people were a) not responsible for and, b) did not profit from.

It's terrible a shame, our two countries have a long history where we've stood together many times. But I don't think there is anything that can be done to heal the rift now.

with respect your post sounds like it is you who harbours ill will towards the scots. in short it sounds very hypocritical. the scots are anti tory , they detest what they did to scotland. the fact is the tory party does pretty well in england and the south especially mainly because of the sheer volume of wealthy people there. whereas in scotland the tories dont exist. so your painting this as anti english is disingenuous, its anti tory yes and its pro scotland. its a cultural and economic decision. the scots , a lot of them, are exceptionally knowledgeable people. they feel quite capable of running their own affairs and believe theyd be better off for doing so.

they have a good relationship with the EU and are hugely respected by all other nations. this will help in trade. I actually think an independent scotland will get along with england better than ever as independent nations. there are some anti english people there but believe me as an englishman the behaviour of vats swathes of so called english patriots towards many other nations is far more
xenophobic.....

our countrymen go around the med in packs screaming bull murder chanting at groups of other nationalities and general making a total nuisance of ourselves. I visited the algarve one time, they wouldnt let any english people into the night clubs. I pretended to be scottish and they let me in

I agree about dragging up ancient history though. time to let the butchering monarchies to bed. I think the monarchy is pure evil. always has been. but thats about power and land more than nationality

[GypsyGoth]

Lorraine Kelly should get to be president of Scotland should it gain independence.

[the truth]

The scots have become richer since theyve had a parliament, the welsh have become poorer since theyve had an assembly

[Z]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Lorraine Kelly should get to be president of Scotland should it gain independence.

"President Kelly we have intelligence reports coming in that Infidel Garraway made disparaging comments about you on the morning show." "Oh that wee gas bag, well we'll just give her a wee sooky sweetie filled with anthrax and that'll sort her right oot won't it"



Ruthless

[arista]

Watch This Video

Ian Hislop On why Scotland is better on its own.

Only just over 2mins


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01x2bzz



Utter Bliss Lee

[joeysteele]

Really good and strong speech by Alex Salmond today, he made really good points and I do feel he will have hit a chord with a lot of people undecided in Scotland.

It is a pity he has Nicola Sturgeon as a barnacle around him but he has made the running for this Independence vote and it now wouldn't surprise me if Scotland sleepwalked out of the UK.
I don't think the majority of Scots want to leave but I am far from sure all who wish to stay will even bother to go and vote.

I have to give great credit to Alex Salmond however for his efforts and all he has achieved so far.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Really good and strong speech by Alex Salmond today, he made really good points and I do feel he will have hit a chord with a lot of people undecided in Scotland.

It is a pity he has Nicola Sturgeon as a barnacle around him but he has made the running for this Independence vote and it now wouldn't surprise me if Scotland sleepwalked out of the UK.
I don't think the majority of Scots want to leave but I am far from sure all who wish to stay will even bother to go and vote.

I have to give great credit to Alex Salmond however for his efforts and all he has achieved so far.

Yes I like what he said.



The No Group are so Negative
it could yet drive more to Vote Yes in Sept.
All still to play for.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes I like what he said.



The No Group are so Negative
it could yet drive more to Vote Yes in Sept.
All still to play for.

I agree arista, for me it was the most compelling speech yet as to this issue to be fair to him.

[lostalex]

We all know Scotland ain't going anywhere. It's just not going to happen.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

We all know Scotland ain't going anywhere. It's just not going to happen.

I think you are likely still right as to that lostalex and I would have thought that myself a few weeks ago.

However even some of my family who live in Scotland and who will vote have been more impressed with Alex Salmond than say Alistair Darling and co.
I just feel that no matter what, those who want independence will definaitely go out and vote for it.
Those who would prefer to remain in the UK,I fear a good number may not likely bother to go out and vote and the result could see Scotland sleepwalking out of the UK.

I used to think the vote would be at least 60% voting to stay and 40% wanting independence.
I think now, it is likely a great deal closer than that.

However I do hope you are right and Scotland votes to stay in the UK in this referendum.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think you are likely still right as to that lostalex and I would have thought that myself a few weeks ago.

However even some of my family who live in Scotland and who will vote have been more impressed with Alex Salmond than say Alistair Darling and co.
I just feel that no matter what, those who want independence will definaitely go out and vote for it.
Those who would prefer to remain in the UK,I fear a good number may not likely bother to go out and vote and the result could see Scotland sleepwalking out of the UK.

I used to think the vote would be at least 60% voting to stay and 40% wanting independence.
I think now, it is likely a great deal closer than that.

However I do hope you are right and Scotland votes to stay in the UK in this referendum.

Well you can like alex salmond, and support the SNP without voting yes. I don't think the SNP will be destroyed by this even if majority vote no. They can still have the SNP, and be part of the UK.

The truth is, most people are scared of change, that's why incumbents usually win. I don't think the majority of Scots want anything to change so drastically. People think they want change, but when it comes down to it, most really don't, and most prefer the status quo.

[Z]

^That's exactly right Alex, and I think that's because this wasn't a grassroots movement from the Scottish people, it's a political agenda being pushed upon a population who didn't really have an opinion on the idea. We're not an oppressed people so there's no great desire to be independent from the UK really, just a lot of ifs, buts and maybes that can be painted as appealing or unappealing by the two different political ends of the spectrum but your average Scottish person's probably not thinking about it on a daily basis, and I think that's why it will fail.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well you can like alex salmond, and support the SNP without voting yes. I don't think the SNP will be destroyed by this even if majority vote no. They can still have the SNP, and be part of the UK.

The truth is, most people are scared of change, that's why incumbents usually win. I don't think the majority of Scots want anything to change so drastically. People think they want change, but when it comes down to it, most really don't, and most prefer the status quo.

I agree with all that, I really hope that is the case and that is what comes about as to the result in the referendum too.

I agree, no matter what may 'seem' to be the possible case now,as you point out when it comes down to it and actually going for change,most prefer the way things are.

Good post lostalex, you have helped erase doubts I was developing as to the result of this referendum.