[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

And I'm sure that was a proper enquiry.................. As I said before peoples perceptions of what is right and what is wrong all depends on where you are sitting.

Are you saying that the enquiry was not legal?

Either you accept the law or you do not. Suggesting that it was improper is irrelevant when law is concerned, just as saying that you should not have gotten a speeding ticket.

hence the reason for law.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

and the soldiers involved in this should all receive life sentences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

Yes they should be tried, in a court of law. So should their leaders and the politicians and civil servants who took the decisions to send that particular unit there at that time.

But only if all loyalist and nationalist paramilitaries own up to all their crimes and receive similar treatment.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yes they should be tried, in a court of law. So should their leaders and the politicians and civil servants who took the decisions to send that particular unit there at that time.

Thank you Shasown, atleast you seem to try and understand other peoples point of views.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Thank you Shasown, atleast you seem to try and understand other peoples point of views.

If nothing else, something along the lines of the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission would provide some comfort to all the victims and relatives of all the casualties in that conflict.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

and the soldiers involved in this should all receive life sentences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

Maybe! Whatever the rights and wrongs of that situation - at least it wasn't planned and, therefore, pre-meditated like the bombings - which determines the difference between manslaughter and murder, to my understanding, in the eyes of the law!

[setanta]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Maybe! Whatever the rights and wrongs of that situation - at least it wasn't planned and, therefore, pre-meditated like the bombings - which determines the difference between manslaughter and murder, to my understanding, in the eyes of the law!

I have to get involved here because I've read up on the SAS's tactics when they were brought in to battle against the IRA and they ambushed and shot down many IRA members that weren't even armed at the time. I mean, every single person involved in the Troubles has blood on their hands, and don't get me started on Bloody Sunday.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by setanta

I have to get involved here because I've read up on the SAS's tactics when they were brought in to battle against the IRA and they ambushed and shot down many IRA members that weren't even armed at the time. I mean, every single person involved in the Troubles has blood on their hands, and don't get me started on Bloody Sunday.

Youtube video

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by setanta

I have to get involved here because I've read up on the SAS's tactics when they were brought in to battle against the IRA and they ambushed and shot down many IRA members that weren't even armed at the time. I mean, every single person involved in the Troubles has blood on their hands, and don't get me started on Bloody Sunday.

Yes it really was bad to send in those nasty sassmen, butchers they are, to take on those awfully nice decent terrorist people, after all whats wrong with planting a few bombs that kill and maim innocent people? They were only expressing their ideology werent they?

The SAS were formally deployed to the Province in 1974 by Harold Wilson in response to bombing campaigns on the UK mainland including the bomb that took out a gardener a Roman Catholic Priest and 5 women working in the kitchens at the home of 3 Para(by the Official IRA in response to Bloody Sunday - 1972) and the car bomb campaign led by the Price sisters(PIRA - 1973).

Some would say, if you play with fire you get burnt.

[Niamh.]

lol, WOMBAI and LT, I am not a Solicitor and this is not a court of Law, It is a forum where I am expressing my opinion. The justice system has failed the Irish in regards to the North previously (Brimingham 6, Gilford 4) so you'll excuse me for not having a high regard for it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

lol, WOMBAI and LT, I am not a Solicitor and this is not a court of Law, It is a forum where I am expressing my opinion. The justice system has failed the Irish in regards to the North previously (Brimingham 6, Gilford 4) so you'll excuse me for not having a high regard for it.

But without it you have nothing. You have to agree to abide by it.


here is something to take our minds off nasty anglo-irish politics

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31e_1268133438

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But without it you have nothing. You have to agree to abide by it.


here is something to take our minds off nasty anglo-irish politics

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31e_1268133438

That is one of the most revolting things I've ever seen, cheers.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

That is one of the most revolting things I've ever seen, cheers.

apparently he had been going around all week saying "do you smell maggots?"

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

apparently he had been going around all week saying "do you smell maggots?"

I turned it of after about a second, I feel sick........

[sooty]

I feel like watching tennis.

My head is ,,,,,,right ,,,left,,,,right,,left,,.

[sooty]

Originally Posted by sooty

I feel like watching tennis.

My head is ,,,,,,right ,,,left,,,,right,,left,,.

It is not joking matter.
I ddi not mean it.

I am sorry.

[Niamh.]

Yep, exactely James, I'll say it for the 3rd time, peoples percpectives change according to where they're sitting.

[setanta]

And sorry, about the hunger strikers: they were asking for political status and were willing to die for their cause. Just think about that for a second. To starve oneself for what you believe in. These are not the actions of men hellbent on bloodletting - they're the actions of people who firmly believe in a cause that's worth fighting for. A war worth fighting for. Have you watched Hunger? Staggeringly brilliant film and directed by an Englishman.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by setanta

And sorry, about the hunger strikers: they were asking for political status and were willing to die for their cause. Just think about that for a second. To starve oneself for what you believe in. These are not the actions of men hellbent on bloodletting - they're the actions of people who firmly believe in a cause that's worth fighting for. A war worth fighting for. Have you watched Hunger? Staggeringly brilliant film and directed by an Englishman.

Yes one of the best films I have ever seen.

Not the actions of men hellbent on bloodletting?

Bobby Sands, jailed for possession of a frirearm, charges of bombing dropped due to lack of evidence, charges for being involved in shootout with the RUC droppped through lack of evidence.
Francis Hughes - murder, attempted murder.
Raymond McCreesh - attempted murder, possession of a rifle and ammunition
Patsy O'Hara - Possessing a hand grenade.
Joe McDonnell - Possession of a firearm.
Martin Hurson - Involvement in planting landmines and other explosives offences.
Kevin Lynch - stealing shotguns, taking part in a punishment shooting and conspiring to take arms from the security forces
Kieron Doherty - possession of firearms and explosives and hijacking a car.
Thomas McElwee, murder, reduced on appeal to manslaughter. Planting firebombs.
Michael Devine - possession of rifles, shotguns and possession of 3,000 rounds of ammunition.

Squeaky clean bunch eh?

Generally speaking about their convictions, when they were done for possession of, it wasnt found in their homes or sheds or anything like that, it was in their possession as they were going to use it. Attempted murder or manslaughter were dropped unless it could be proven they had actually tried to commitor committed the offences.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yes one of the best films I have ever seen.

Not the actions of men hellbent on bloodletting?

Bobby Sands, jailed for possession of a frirearm, charges of bombing dropped due to lack of evidence, charges for being involved in shootout with the RUC droppped through lack of evidence.
Francis Hughes - murder, attempted murder.
Raymond McCreesh - attempted murder, possession of a rifle and ammunition
Patsy O'Hara - Possessing a hand grenade.
Joe McDonnell - Possession of a firearm.
Martin Hurson - Involvement in planting landmines and other explosives offences.
Kevin Lynch - stealing shotguns, taking part in a punishment shooting and conspiring to take arms from the security forces
Kieron Doherty - possession of firearms and explosives and hijacking a car.
Thomas McElwee, murder, reduced on appeal to manslaughter. Planting firebombs.
Michael Devine - possession of rifles, shotguns and possession of 3,000 rounds of ammunition.

Squeaky clean bunch eh?

Generally speaking about their convictions, when they were done for possession of, it wasnt found in their homes or sheds or anything like that, it was in their possession as they were going to use it. Attempted murder or manslaughter were dropped unless it could be proven they had actually tried to commitor committed the offences.

I never said that they didn't fight for their cause, just mentioning the sacrifices they were willing to make, that's all. Is it called murder during a war? I mean, it was a war for them.... their hunger strike proves what they were willing to give for the cause.

Yeah, Hunger is a masterpiece.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by setanta

I never said that they didn't fight for their cause, just mentioning the sacrifices they were willing to make, that's all. Is it called murder during a war? I mean, it was a war for them.... their hunger strike proves what they were willing to give for the cause.

Yeah, Hunger is a masterpiece.

But thats the whole point of the hunger strike, it wasn't a war it was an internal security situation in the eyes of the British Government, therefore the men in the Maze/Long Kesh werent political prisoners, they were convicted criminals.

If the British had conceded to all the points the hunger strikers requested, it would have validated all the claims of the IRA. It would have made them appear to the world to be freedom fighters and not just terrorists.

Plus there were some members of the loyalist and the nationalist factions who had commited crimes like bank and post office robberies to finance the conflict, these are civil crimes. so differentiation between the real volunteers and the criminals who had lined their own pockets and put some money to their organisations coffers would have been a nightmare.

Consequently even O'Rawe admits they were willing to concede some of the points, but not all of them. But according to him he was told all or nothing, say nothing about concessions.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Shasown

But thats the whole point of the hunger strike, it wasn't a war it was an internal security situation in the eyes of the British Government, therefore the men in the Maze/Long Kesh werent political prisoners, they were convicted criminals.

If the British had conceded to all the points the hunger strikers requested, it would have validated all the claims of the IRA. It would have made them appear to the world to be freedom fighters and not just terrorists.

Plus there were some members of the loyalist and the nationalist factions who had commited crimes like bank and post office robberies to finance the conflict, these are civil crimes. so differentiation between the real volunteers and the criminals who had lined their own pockets and put some money to their organisations coffers would have been a nightmare.

Consequently even O'Rawe admits they were willing to concede some of the points, but not all of them. But according to him he was told all or nothing, say nothing about concessions.

But I would argue that they were political prisoners as they were fighting for a cause, rather than mere self interest, you know? They were willing to die for it. That's a bold mission statement that generated so much publicity for the movement when it was actually in disarray for awhile at the time following negotiatings falling through and things like that. And don't forget that the British had been in talks with the IRA prior to this situation.

[Shasown]

And lets not forget for all the great gains that have been made there, it wouldnt take much to undermine the whole process.

I honestly dont think either side has fully decomissioned, and to be frank If I was in PIRA, I wouldnt fully trust the loyalists, their politicans yeah maybe but definately not their fighting arms. I am sorry, I just cant.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Shasown

And lets not forget for all the great gains that have been made there, it wouldnt take much to undermine the whole process.

I honestly dont think either side has fully decomissioned, and to be frank If I was in PIRA, I wouldnt fully trust the loyalists, their politicans yeah maybe but definately not their fighting arms. I am sorry, I just cant.

Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by setanta

Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

PMSL Honestly, me neither.