[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

(beside the point but I could just about promise you 700 did not pay 30 but lets say they did...)

I don't know but why are you so certain that is an ****load more than enough to cover venue, lighting etc?

The next thing is to find out what's left after expenses and see how that is worked out.
For example:
Lets say they are left with 15 after expenses. This goes into the Ministry (it does go to Davids pocket).
That gets divided out into all kinds of expenses even to a bookkeeper other staff, whatever business expenses they have,
they do things like buy new printers for the ministry, pay for posters.

Keep in mind they have to use this to start promoting, planning their next event.

After that a certain % goes to paying their Pastor (David) who (for the sake of argument) may get paid 1,600 a month.
He gets his monthly salary of 1,600 and they may be quite happy they have enough to pay him for the next 6 months.

This is just a typical example of these things. One thing I am certain about is that it DOES NOT work that David is like a Club Owner/Promoter who simply gets 'the profits'.
Doesn't work like that at all.

Keep in mind, if a Club Promoter did this nobody would call the Promoter a 'Con Man'.
They would say 'Yeah.. guy put on a concert and made x-amount'.

But in Davids case it would not work that way. If we found out it did - he would surely be in the Diary Room talking to some tax people right now heh.



They are not gullible. They love attending these things, believe in it with as much passion as David and are happy to chip in their 30,
and,
for them the 30 is WELL WORTH the event. They are delighted they paid ONLY 30 for a concert they loved.

Put it this way:
What was the last concert you attended?
Did you get 'ripped off'?
Are you 'gullible'?
Was the band/singer a con-man?

Will you come to my sloshfest and say all that

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by fivecougz

there were about 700 people at his last event.
700 x $30 = $21,000, a ****load more than enough to cover venue hire and lighting.

Everyone puts bread on the table by various means - most of us have a job. Dave just chooses to rip off the gullible, that's all.

^^^^
this

[fivecougz]

ElProximo, you're a Dave fan (tho from the way you're defending him and explaining his gigs maybe I should i say disciple?) - there is nothing I can say that would change your mind.

But just look at his videos on youtube ... even ones where he's being pushed around in a wheelchair ... I rest my case.

And to answer your question - no, the singer at the last concert I went to was not a con-man, nor did I ever mention the word con-man ... but I'm glad you can see that that's what Dave is - he weighs glory in dollars.

[flamingGalah!]

Last concert I went to the band were not claiming to be able to cure cancer or grow amputees new limbs... nor were they acting like mentally disturbed buffoons pretending they were drunk either... though I did see Oasis once...

[stonedape]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

Last concert I went to the band were not claiming to be able to cure cancer or grow amputees new limbs... nor were they acting like mentally disturbed buffoons pretending they were drunk either... though I did see Oasis once...

win.

[mikopale]

Many born-again Christians don't beleive in sloshfests. A lot of born again Christians believe you can get drunk on the Lord, but it doesn't happen that often, and it usually happens in time of Worship, and the person isn't usually in control. I don't know how Dave gets drunk all the time. Sloshfests is more of a cult that has been derived from born-again Christianity, they go there to get drunk off the Lord, whereas most born-again Christians hardly get drunk and it is out of there control and can happen naturally during Worship.

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by mikopale

Many born-again Christians don't beleive in sloshfests. A lot of born again Christians believe you can get drunk on the Lord, but it doesn't happen that often, and it usually happens in time of Worship, and the person isn't usually in control. I don't know how Dave gets drunk all the time. Sloshfests is more of a cult that has been derived from born-again Christianity, they go there to get drunk off the Lord, whereas most born-again Christians hardly get drunk and it is out of there control and can happen naturally during Worship.

Indeed. Dave is equally offensive to both Christians & non believers alike...

[mikopale]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

Indeed. Dave is equally offensive to both Christians & non believers alike...

Even though I don't agree with sloshfests, I don't think Dave is offending Christians, becauses he truly believes it. He is still a Christian, who believes the same as many born-again Christians, but it's just these sloshfests that he's misunderstood. A lot of cults are derived from established faiths, beliefs, religion's etc, and sloshfests are more of a cult, even though all the other beliefs are not if that makes sense. I don't think he's a con man. I reckon he truly believes that sloshfests are alright.

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by mikopale

Even though I don't agree with sloshfests, I don't think Dave is offending Christians, becauses he truly believes it. He is still a Christian, who believes the same as many born-again Christians, but it's just these sloshfests that he's misunderstood. A lot of cults are derived from established faiths, beliefs, religion's etc, and sloshfests are more of a cult, even though all the other beliefs are not if that makes sense. I don't think he's a con man. I reckon he truly believes that sloshfests are alright.

Well he offends ElProximo, who claims to be a Christian...

I find his comments that he can cure cancer & grow people new limbs more offensive than his actual antics on being "drunk"... that I just find sad.

[Shasown]

Heres a daft question then, how come there is no one come out of the woodwork and criticised him, saying he charged them for a sloshfest and it was crap, or he charged me saying he would pray and cure my mums cancer and she has since died?

Or some outraged parent claiming their child has joined his cult and wont speak to them etc.?

Lets face it he has had enough accusations against him on this and other forums in the last 8 weeks, and still no one has come forward to condemn him girst hand.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Heres a daft question then, how come there is no one come out of the woodwork and criticised him, saying he charged them for a sloshfest and it was crap, or he charged me saying he would pray and cure my mums cancer and she has since died?

Or some outraged parent claiming their child has joined his cult and wont speak to them etc.?

Lets face it he has had enough accusations against him on this and other forums in the last 8 weeks, and still no one has come forward to condemn him girst hand.

Is it something anybody would readily admit to? Also, don't forget, Daves 'Movement' is in its infancy....
Look at Dave claim to be able to regrow limbs .. he mumbo-jumboed over Steves legs and yet how many people took it seriously enough to protest about the subsequent failure? ... Yo'd look like a fool because ofcorse its not going to happen! Great, no cures AND you get to feel stupid or (believers) think they weren't worthy of Gods help.. I'm willing to bet Dave doesn't offer refunds though ! Doesn't stop him continuing to make the same claims though ... because afterall, he's ' harmless ' really!!

[stonedape]

The real shame is trying to make money with a metaphoric Christian flag draped around you, promising miracles you knowingly or unknowingly cannot back up, when the most repeated theme in the new testament is give up your possessions and be like Jesus (poor as hell). Unfortunately, making money off God and promising miracles you can't back up is not as rare as ElProximo wants it to be, and is actually more of the standard. Besides the semantics of "drunk" and "high" and the awful aesthetic/musical choices, I see little difference. I would definitely not call Dave's group a cult, unless you're being so broad that "not normal" = cult. It's an alternative brand of your standard, run-of-the-mill Christianity with monthly tithes instead of weekly.

I have no problem with Dave's Sloshfests. At least they seem to be having fun, which is more than I can say for your average theist giving their hard earned money to others on behalf of invisible forces.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by stonedape

The real shame is trying to make money with a metaphoric Christian flag draped around you, promising miracles you knowingly or unknowingly cannot back up, when the most repeated theme in the new testament is give up your possessions and be like Jesus (poor as hell). Unfortunately, making money off God and promising miracles you can't back up is not as rare as ElProximo wants it to be, and is actually more of the standard. Besides the semantics of "drunk" and "high" and the awful aesthetic/musical choices, I see little difference. I would definitely not call Dave's group a cult, unless you're being so broad that "not normal" = cult. It's an alternative brand of your standard, run-of-the-mill Christianity with monthly tithes instead of weekly.

I take it the "God Squad" are quite low on your must donate to list then?

[stonedape]

Originally Posted by Shasown

I take it the "God Squad" are quite low on your must donate to list then?

Unimaginably low

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you go to any church in the UK you will see some people sing, raising their hands in the air and closing their eyes

if you go to a Pentecostal church you will see much more. if you go to a charismatic church you will hear people blurting rubbish pretending to speak in tongues.

It is all degrees of bollocks but then what do you see at a football match or an Elton John concert for example?

[fingers]

How many people on "minimum wage " can fly to America several times a year plus make trips to the Middle East and Indonesia and all the other junkets he boasts about?

[stoney]

Originally Posted by fingers

How many people on "minimum wage " can fly to America several times a year plus make trips to the Middle East and Indonesia and all the other junkets he boasts about?

its all part of his "work" tho fingers

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by fingers

How many people on "minimum wage " can fly to America several times a year plus make trips to the Middle East and Indonesia and all the other junkets he boasts about?

People in Ministries do. In fact, most of them do it for NO WAGE at all. The Ministry is the one paying for the tickets.

All over the world is almost uncountable numbers of Christian orgs, aid to Africa, relief missions, work projects building schools, hospitals, water pumps, emergency medicine, vaccines, flood cleanups.
The list is endless.
In almost every example most are NO WAGE earners.

This isn't complicated. People like me and the people in my Church are asked to donate to some project in war-torn Africa.
We agree.
We want to see those people helped.
I had $80 that I earned from my job. It was more but the government took about 30% of it.
So i was left with 80.
I gave that to the African non-profit ministry people.
So did 100 others in my Church.
The 'African Mission' collected 8,000
They PAY 2 people a minimum wage as actual full-time administrators and workers.
They have 2 people who are volunteers.
Of that 8000 we gave them... 4,000 went to their plane tickets and expenses.
4000 is not 'split between them' like its 'profit'. Instead it goes into the ministries account where 1000 will be paid to 'employees 1 and 2' for their monthly salary.
Next month again.

This is NOT COMPLICATED nor is it 'suspicious' nor is it confusing nor is this some kind of 'scheme'.
Its very basic.

Now then.. is it possible there is a Ministry where (for example) a board of Directors is hiring all their friends into 'party jobs' and then paying them to take what amounts to 'vacations'.
Paying them huge salaries too?
Yes.
This is CONSTANTLY true in nearly every field from Bankers, Insurance companies, Atheist Orgs, University 'Tenures',
and,
anywhere you can have people making what is (in our estimation) quite an easy life with easy money,
but,
now you are just talking irresponsibility, stupid companies, stupid non-profits, stupid social welfare and bad political parties using the system for gain.
Here is what (hopefully most times) corrects that:
- People won't vote that Party's politicians in next time.
- People won't invest in that Finance Company or demand the government withhold bailout money.
- People will realize the Ministry they are donating too is not using their money for the most good and STOP donating to them.

btw.. you do understand that David is not getting the plane ticket money right?
The airlines get that money.
Not David.

[fizzy]

Originally Posted by fingers

How many people on "minimum wage " can fly to America several times a year plus make trips to the Middle East and Indonesia and all the other junkets he boasts about?

that's true

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by fingers

How many people on "minimum wage " can fly to America several times a year plus make trips to the Middle East and Indonesia and all the other junkets he boasts about?

That is funded by the church - not out of his pocket! Like anything - the expenses for events are met by the organisation - in this case the church!

[fingers]

Who cares who pays for his tickets (apart from him that is) He invented his "Ministry" as a cash cow and is making full use of it. Good luck to him for getting the suckers to fund his "lifestyle""

[housemate]

LOL .. don't tell me you missed something!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by housemate

LOL .. don't tell me you missed something!

Don't tell me you watch 24/7 - personally I have better things to do!

[fingers]

A sobering picture of the sycophants' delight!

Youtube video

[watchinittoomuch]

Well I'm still up for a sloshfest