[Angus]

Originally Posted by coolestrock

ive seen many you tube videos of dave,,,,and i have to say that he makes me feel very uncomfortable with the claims he makes,,,,the guy is very creepy. Anyone making money from religion of any type is a conman or did god tell you to take money of ppl to make a living.

So that would apply to all clergy from the Pope and Archbishop of Canterbury downwards I suppose?

[Livia]

Dave is no more a con man than any other "preacher".

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Dave is no more a con man than any other "preacher".

Yup. They are all as bad as each other to be honest.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Dave is no more a con man than any other "preacher".

One difference ,a PROPER preacher/Vicar/priest does it all in a church not in his garden shed

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Livia

Dave is no more a con man than any other "preacher".

That isn't fair

[calyman]

Originally Posted by Livia

Dave is no more a con man than any other "preacher".

Well any practioner of superstition can be accussed of being called a con man.

[stonedape]

Originally Posted by calyman

Well any practioner of superstition can be accussed of being called a con man.

Right. I'd only call Dave a con man if we're going to be so broad that all clergy are con men. Which they are, knowingly or unknowingly.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by stonedape

Right. I'd only call Dave a con man if we're going to be so broad that all clergy are con men. Which they are, knowingly or unknowingly.

"Clergy" wtf has Dave got to do with the "Clergy"he is NOT clergy ,you or i could set up a cult ,he has nothing whatsoever to do with the COE ,or any other legit religion ,its a business,nothing more,nothing less

[stonedape]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

"Clergy" wtf has Dave got to do with the "Clergy"he is NOT clergy ,you or i could set up a cult ,he has nothing whatsoever to do with the COE ,or any other legit religion ,its a business,nothing more,nothing less

Uhh....someone didn't get my point. I wasn't making any statement on whether Dave is a part of the clergy, I was saying if you're going to call Dave a con man, you have to call the clergy con men too. And all people who sell myths for a living, and that includes Christianity in all its versions.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

"Clergy" wtf has Dave got to do with the "Clergy"he is NOT clergy ,you or i could set up a cult ,he has nothing whatsoever to do with the COE ,or any other legit religion ,its a business,nothing more,nothing less

Absolutly Agree .. he is a self appointed minister with no grounding, training or learning in any Faith or Body. We are all able (legally) to do this ... morally speaking, well thats another question.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by calyman

Well any practioner of superstition can be accussed of being called a con man.

Good thing Christianity isn't a superstition. Dave's beliefs are.

[calyman]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Good thing Christianity isn't a superstition. Dave's beliefs are.

Any irrational or faith based beliefs qualify as being superstitious purely on the basis that there is no real scientific basis behind them. Therefore any practioner of any such beliefs are indeed charlatans, however well meaning they may try to convince the rest of us they are.


If proof is required, then it's the charlatan who must prove to all, that they deserve our credulity and acceptance of their claims. In the absence of such prood, they are just flim flam artists, promising nothing but Pie In The Sky When We Die.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by calyman

Any irrational or faith based beliefs qualify as being superstitious purely on the basis that there is no real scientific basis behind them. Therefore any practioner of any such beliefs are indeed charlatans, however well meaning they may try to convince the rest of us they are.

Of course you're going to look at it as a superstition if that's what you think. The natural sciences (to which I believe you are alluding) can't answer all of man's question. You forget philosophy is a science and in no way incompatible with the natural sciences.

If proof is required, then it's the charlatan who must prove to all, that they deserve our credulity and acceptance of their claims. In the absence of such proof, they are just flim flam artists, promising nothing but Pie In The Sky When We Die.

Dave is a charlatan because he works for and enables an organisation that claims it can 'rehabilitate' homosexuals to lead intimate relationships with the opposite sex and that it can literally use supernatural powers to cure cancer. That is superstitious, irrational and anti-scientific and, more to the point, is a rotten, cynical lie.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Good thing Christianity isn't a superstition. Dave's beliefs are.

Dave's beliefs aren't any less valid because he believes something different to you. He believes Jesus died on the cross for the salvation of mankind and that God loves everyone. Sounds pretty Christian to me.

I think all religions are superstition that have been used over the centuries to control the masses with the promise of an afterlife. Unfounded, unproven, made up of stories written thousands years ago and almost totally debunked by science. Personal point of view, obviously.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by Livia

Dave's beliefs aren't any less valid because he believes something different to you. He believes Jesus died on the cross for the salvation of mankind and that God loves everyone. Sounds pretty Christian to me.

I think all religions are superstition that have been used over the centuries to control the masses with the promise of an afterlife. Unfounded, unproven, made up of stories written thousands years ago and almost totally debunked by science. Personal point of view, obviously.

And many agree with you, to a degree and I am an (..allbeit unbaptised) Christian.. I agree with you.
Dave seems to have invented his own branch of Faith which has introduced lots of supersticious beings such as fairies, werewolves and the like into its teaching. This does offend me because he incorporates it all under the same banner of 'Christian Faith' and 'Gods Glory'... etc.. etc..
I can understand that you might argue that in your view it is the same thing ... in my view it is most certainly not. I'd go further and say it brings my beliefs into disrepute... it also thoroughly undermines the good, faith can bring to those who need it.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by TheBrilliantOne

I was reading this thread earlier today: http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...d.php?t=156006

Ok, so I had problems viewing the clip (my connection is slow today) but from the negative comments about Dave lately, I'm calling out these people to actually provide evidence for their claims.

I've heard people claim that Dave is a 'con man'.

Prove it.

I want people who say these things to either back it up or stop with the anti-Dave posts. He's an entertaining HM and if Sam doesn't win, I hope Dave does. He's 2nd most entertaining in there and deserves respect for his many golden moments in the house.

And you are ? and I want Dave to prove he has cured cancer ,and I want to Dave to prove he can grow back amputated limbs ,and I want Dave to prove he has made the deaf ,hear and i want proof that Dave has made the blind see ,YOU prove hes done all these them MAYBE,JUST MAYBE people make listen to you ,until then goodbye

[TheBrilliantOne]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

And you are ? and I want Dave to prove he has cured cancer ,and I want to Dave to prove he can grow back amputated limbs ,and I want Dave to prove he has made the deaf ,hear and i want proof that Dave has made the blind see ,YOU prove hes done all these them MAYBE,JUST MAYBE people make listen to you ,until then goodbye

You're not actually proving anything.

In a court of law, you'd traditionally have to bring evidence to prove a given case. If evidence wasn't brought forward, the case would be dropped. There is no case without any credible evidence.

In this particular scenario, no one seems to actually prove anything. It seems to be a lot of name-calling with no substance.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by TheBrilliantOne

You're not actually proving anything.

In a court of law, you'd traditionally have to bring evidence to prove a given case. If evidence wasn't brought forward, the case would be dropped. There is no case without any credible evidence.

In this particular scenario, no one seems to actually prove anything. It seems to be a lot of name-calling with no substance.

Don't hold your breath, I'm sure Mr Plod will be on his case soon enough!

[TheBrilliantOne]

Originally Posted by fingers

Don't hold your breath, I'm sure Mr Plod will be on his case soon enough!

Unless you're going to actually provide proof, you really have no business even making a post in this thread. I urge all members to regard your posts as spam until you can contribute properly to this thread.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by TheBrilliantOne

Unless you're going to actually provide proof, you really have no business even making a post in this thread. I urge all members to regard your posts as spam until you can contribute properly to this thread.

Oh, My, joins 5 minutes ago and is already a Moderator! lol

[psychtracker]

The real irony here is that, even if every single one of these outrageous claims made by these haters were proven to be correct, it would in no way vindicate their cause because they've all publicly shown themselves up to be - vile, judgmental, spineless hatemongers who all consider themselves to be judge, jury and executioner on minimal proof and evidence. Everything they claim Dave to be - as a failed human being - they're actually enacting themselves each and everyday on these boards. End of story.

[WOMBAI]

Anyone who knows anything about the law - should know that the onus of proof is on the prosecution! If you make allegations against people - it is up to you to prove their guilt - not on them to prove their innocence!

[Livia]

I've never understood the hate against Dave to be honest. He believes what he believes... that's it. He hasn't claimed anything that other more established religons don't also claim. Look at Lourdes, a great money-spinner for the Catholics with not much actual proof that people are cured as a result of visiting. It's not like Dave's preaching hate against other religions or saying we're all going to burn in hell if we don't follow him. There are far more odious people in the world if you're looking for a witch hunt.

[watchinittoomuch]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've never understood the hate against Dave to be honest. He believes what he believes... that's it. He hasn't claimed anything that other more established religons don't also claim. Look at Lourdes, a great money-spinner for the Catholics with not much actual proof that people are cured as a result of visiting. It's not like Dave's preaching hate against other religions or saying we're all going to burn in hell if we don't follow him. There are far more odious people in the world if you're looking for a witch hunt.

People just want to rant, seriously, some of 'em are enjoying it waaaay too much, it's not healthy

[Livia]

Originally Posted by watchinittoomuch

People just want to rant, seriously, some of 'em are enjoying it waaaay too much, it's not healthy

It's been kind of rough in here over the last 24 hours. It's been like playing Millwall. Away. And without so much witty banter.