[Locke.]

2 horses dead

[Novo]

Ornais and Dooney's gate

[ButterflyGirl]

Poor horses , made to race and jump over stupidly high fences and whipped too ,it's just cruel.

[Novo]

Dooney's gate when he fell.. didn't realise it was that bad looks like he fell on his head

[GypsyGoth]

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by ButterflyGirl

Poor horses , made to race and jump over stupidly high fences and whipped too ,it's just cruel.

By all intents and purposes the horses are actually looked after and treated very well, a lot better than most horses are

[Smithy]

Aww the poor horse

[ButterflyGirl]

Originally Posted by MTVN

By all intents and purposes the horses are actually looked after and treated very well, a lot better than most horses are

They do look very well looked after and they aren't neglected like some horses are but it just upsets me that they have to do those races, maybe it would better if the heights they have to jump weren't so high then there would be no chance of them getting injured or dying.

[Kerry]

Just read about the horses' deaths

[Pyramid*]

Regardless of how well the horses are treated, they are trained for racing and jumping - to win races - not to die in them. It's as though it's been viewed as 'collatoral damage' which is pretty sick imo.

Everyone who has bet on the Grand National and whooping about what they 'won' - did so at the cost of the lives of 2 beautiful creatures. It's time this event was stopped.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Regardless of how well the horses are treated, they are trained for racing and jumping - to win races - not to die in them. It's as though it's been viewed as 'collatoral damage' which is pretty sick imo.

Everyone who has bet on the Grand National and whooping about what they 'won' - did so at the cost of the lives of 2 beautiful creatures. It's time this event was stopped.

It's sad that they died and there always is a chance they might do so, but their lives are far better than the majority of horses. Unless you're a vegetarian I would consider it pretty hypocritical for anyone to try and take the moral highground in this issue as well

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's sad that they died and there always is a chance they might do so, but their lives are far better than the majority of horses. Unless you're a vegetarian I would consider it pretty hypocritical for anyone to try and take the moral highground in this issue as well

I don't find it hypocritical at all. It's cruelty, plain and simple. Certain animals are bred for human consumption: race horses aren't - they are bred and trained to race - but it shouldn't be at the cost of their lives being put at risk - for what - so people can make a few Ł's????

That's a world away from breeding animals to enter the food chain - for humans to exist and being killed by racing which is for financial gain.

And please don't bleat on about 'unless you are a vegetarian' ..... humans - and certainly babies and young children need the nutritional value of meat/animal products for healthy growth - if you don't believe me - check out the recent story of the veggie mother who breast fed her child and it died because babies need more than what veggie mother breast milk contains. I believe the mother is being charged with aiding the death OWTTE. Vegans are only a step away from Vegetarians....let's not kid on here. http://www.hunter-gatherer.com/blog/...amin-deficient

[joeysteele]

I really hate to hear of Horses dying after or in any race, the Grand National seems to have a better record recently.Lots seemed to be injured or died in the past from reading up on it.

However, the Horses actually seem to love the race,you know the old saying of, you can take a horse to water but cannot make them drink it, well if they don't want to jump they pull up and often unseat the rider too.

Very sad for the 2 that died though.
They clearly are well looked after as MTVN said because it is very expensive to have and keep racehorses so there is no point in neglectiing the care of them.
I mean watch the ones who have unseated their rider, they still run round that course alone and still jumping the fences with the others even then.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I don't find it hypocritical at all. It's cruelty, plain and simple. Certain animals are bred for human consumption: race horses aren't - they are bred and trained to race - but it shouldn't be at the cost of their lives being put at risk - for what - so people can make a few Ł's????

That's a world away from breeding animals to enter the food chain - for humans to exist and being killed by racing which is for financial gain.

And please don't bleat on about 'unless you are a vegetarian' ..... humans - and certainly babies and young children need the nutritional value of meat/animal products for healthy growth - if you don't believe me - check out the recent story of the veggie mother who breast fed her child and it died because babies need more than what veggie mother breast milk contains. I believe the mother is being charged with aiding the death OWTTE. Vegans are only a step away from Vegetarians....let's not kid on here. http://www.hunter-gatherer.com/blog/...amin-deficient

I think it's completely hypocritical, next time you sit down to a KFC or a McDonalds or just your average Roast, think about how well that animal must have been treated, how good a life it had. Compare that to having horses which are looked after very well, kept in top class stables, and regularly checked up on by vets.

And yes, there's a big difference between vegetarians and vegans, find me a link that says you cant survive on a vegetarian diet and then I'll listen. Noone needs to eat meat anymore, I do regularly, but I'm not the one getting on the moral highground here. You cant criticise horse racign for being cruel and then sit down to a meal where an animal has lived in sh*t conditions it's whole life just so it can eventually be eaten by you to satisfy your desire to have meat. It's hypocritical.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think it's completely hypocritical, next time you sit down to a KFC or a McDonalds or just your average Roast, think about how well that animal must have been treated, how good a life it had. Compare that to having horses which are looked after very well, kept in top class stables, and regularly checked up on by vets.

And yes, there's a big difference between vegetarians and vegans, find me a link that says you cant survive on a vegetarian diet and then I'll listen. Noone needs to eat meat anymore, I do regularly, but I'm not the one getting on the moral highground here. You cant criticise horse racign for being cruel and then sit down to a meal where an animal has lived in sh*t conditions it's whole life just so it can eventually be eaten by you to satisfy your desire to have meat. It's hypocritical.

when was the last time a Sheep Dog died and was put into the food chain? ...... it doesn't happen -so therefore it has nothing to do with people eating animal meat or not.

Certain animals are bred for a variety of purposes. Race horses are bred to race - not to have their lives endangered and risk losing their lives all because some greedy people want to make bets and have a flutter.

I can critisise what I want to - as I am perfectly entitled to my opinion. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but it's still an opinion, it's mine and I have every right to voice it - as do you.

FTR - I don't tend to eat meats that are raised in '****' conditions overall. As for Mc Donalds and KFC etc: again, it is something I very rarely ingest. The roasts I tend to eat happen to have grown up in the countryside - outside in the fresh air, being fed and watered, tended to as nature intended........

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I really hate to hear of Horses dying after or in any race, the Grand National seems to have a better record recently.Lots seemed to be injured or died in the past from reading up on it.

However, the Horses actually seem to love the race,you know the old saying of, you can take a horse to water but cannot make them drink it, well if they don't want to jump they pull up and often unseat the rider too.

Very sad for the 2 that died though.
They clearly are well looked after as MTVN said because it is very expensive to have and keep racehorses so there is no point in neglectiing the care of them.
I mean watch the ones who have unseated their rider, they still run round that course alone and still jumping the fences with the others even then.

Horses like speed - it's one of the things that they are naturally built for: training them to run and race isn't my issue. What is my issue are races such as the GN - where conditions are cramped at jumps, jumps that are extremely high and dangerous. If they werent - 2 horses would not have died yesterday.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

when was the last time a Sheep Dog died and was put into the food chain? ...... it doesn't happen -so therefore it has nothing to do with people eating animal meat or not.

Certain animals are bred for a variety of purposes. Race horses are bred to race - not to have their lives endangered and risk losing their lives all because some greedy people want to make bets and have a flutter.

I can critisise what I want to - as I am perfectly entitled to my opinion. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but it's still an opinion, it's mine and I have every right to voice it - as do you.

FTR - I don't tend to eat meats that are raised in '****' conditions overall. As for Mc Donalds and KFC etc: again, it is something I very rarely ingest. The roasts I tend to eat happen to have grown up in the countryside - outside in the fresh air, being fed and watered, tended to as nature intended........

So it's alright for animals to be killed if that's the intention of their life but if a couple die as an unfortunate consequence of horse racing it's suddenly "cruel"? Would you object to people eating horse meat?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

So it's alright for animals to be killed if that's the intention of their life but if a couple die as an unfortunate consequence of horse racing it's suddenly "cruel"? Would you object to people eating horse meat?

Yes. That's it precisely. The racehorse is not bred to die by being trained to race and then given cramped conditions and inordinately high jumps in which to risk it's life - for the sake of a bit of gambling. For let's be honest: that's what it amounts to.

I'm not in favour of horsemeat being consumed. I wouldn't expect to throw my cat into the pot when it dies either. By your reckoning - I'm guessing that you think pets should be eaten when they die - for that very much seems to be the angle that you are coming from.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Yes. That's it precisely. The racehorse is not bred to die by being trained to race and then given cramped conditions and inordinately high jumps in which to risk it's life - for the sake of a bit of gambling. For let's be honest: that's what it amounts to.

I'm not in favour of horsemeat being consumed. I wouldn't expect to throw my cat into the pot when it dies either. By your reckoning - I'm guessing that you think pets should be eaten when they die - for that very much seems to be the angle that you are coming from.

Where did I say that?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Where did I say that?

I'm trying to establish where your own views lie on the deaths of animals and eating them.

if you don't have boundaries - I feel it's very hypocritical of you to find fault that I have boundaries.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm trying to establish where your own views lie on the deaths of animals and eating them.

if you don't have boundaries - I feel it's very hypocritical of you to find fault that I have boundaries.

Well I have personal boundaries, but I dont get judgemental about the death of animals, we're all guilty of it one way or another, it's all relative depending on culture, custom etc I guess.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well I have personal boundaries, but I dont get judgemental about the death of animals, we're all guilty of it one way or another, it's all relative depending on culture, custom etc I guess.

Ah right I see. It's okay for you to have boundaries, okay for you to criticise anothers boundaries that simply don't match yours.

As I say: pets are animals. They aren't usually eaten when they die - because they are deemed as pets - not as food. Working sheepdogs are animals, they aren't usuall eaten when they die - because they are deemed to be working animals, not food. Racehorses are animals, they aren't usually eaten as food when they die because they are deemed to be 'working animals' - but deaths suh as these 2 horses yesterday came about through having no other value to humans other than being bred (and ultimately die) for nothing more than entertainment value only. Doesn't matter how good they were treated: they are bred for nothing more then entertainment - as as shown yesterday: the price of that entertaiment value can be painful death.

And you have the temerity to call me a hypocrite.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Ah right I see. It's okay for you to have boundaries, okay for you to criticise anothers boundaries that simply don't match yours.

As I say: pets are animals. They aren't usually eaten when they die - because they are deemed as pets - not as food. Working sheepdogs are animals, they aren't usuall eaten when they die - because they are deemed to be working animals, not food. Racehorses are animals, they aren't usually eaten as food when they die because they are deemed to be 'working animals' - but deaths suh as these 2 horses yesterday came about through having no other value to humans other than being bred (and ultimately die) for nothing more than entertainment value only. Doesn't matter how good they were treated: they are bred for nothing more then entertainment - as as shown yesterday: the price of that entertaiment value can be painful death.

And you have the temerity to call me a hypocrite.

You missed the point; I'm not criticising you for having boundaries, I'm criticising you for trying to impose those on others and getting sanctimonious about it. And again, I reiterate that these horses live far better lives than most do, if they weren't racing they'd probably be in a lot worse condition than they are

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

You missed the point; I'm not criticising you for having boundaries, I'm criticising you for trying to impose those on others and getting sanctimonious about it. And again, I reiterate that these horses live far better lives than most do, if they weren't racing they'd probably be in a lot worse condition than they are

I'm not imposing anything on others at all. I'm putting my view across - if anyone is getting santamonious - it is you - after all, you are the one who brought the 'unless you are a vegetarian, you are a hypocrite and shouldn't be commenting' patter.

Well..... far as I see it: unless you are happy to eat your pets etc - you are in no position to critisise.

Animals are there for different purposes. I happen to disagree that entertainment value only - for the sake of a flutter - is a good reason for an animal to die. You seem to forget that racehorses don't just magically 'appear'....they are bred for the purpose of entertainment value. they aren't just rounded up from Dartmoor and trained. they are purposely bred to provide entertainment only - and ultimately, that entertaiment can lead to unnecessary death.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm not imposing anything on others at all. I'm putting my view across - if anyone is getting santamonious - it is you - after all, you are the one who brought the 'unless you are a vegetarian, you are a hypocrite and shouldn't be commenting' patter.

Well..... far as I see it: unless you are happy to eat your pets etc - you are in no position to critisise.

Animals are there for different purposes. I happen to disagree that entertainment value only - for the sake of a flutter - is a good reason for an animal to die. You seem to forget that racehorses don't just magically 'appear'....they are bred for the purpose of entertainment value. they aren't just rounded up from Dartmoor and trained. they are purposely bred to provide entertainment only - and ultimately, that entertaiment can lead to unnecessary death.

Well you said it should be banned. I wouldnt eat my own pets but as I'm sure you know, dog meat is eaten in some parts of the world and I dont judge them for it because as I said, it's all relative. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one