[Omah]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Omah, you should try deciphering some of the doublespeak, its fun...
Half-truths,untruths,rhetoric, spin,read between the lines and add in a few facts and bingo! =)

Been there, done that ..... CBA for this lot .....

[thesheriff443]

if goverments did what they promised there would be no need to change them!

[Livia]

Reading this thread - with one or two exceptions, joey - it's like listening to a fat bloke sitting in an armchair in his team shirt, shouting at a bunch of footballers as if he could really do better. If more people spent less time pontificating and toff-bashing (really... people would be outraged if people were being bashed simply because they were working class, seems it doesn't work the other way around though) and more time actually getting involved in politics, it would be a much better and fairer system. All the political parties are crying out for members, for campaigners, for councillors... but it's easier to sit in your armchair and moan.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

Reading this thread - with one or two exceptions, joey - it's like listening to a fat bloke sitting in an armchair in his team shirt, shouting at a bunch of footballers as if he could really do better. If more people spent less time pontificating and toff-bashing (really... people would be outraged if people were being bashed simply because they were working class, seems it doesn't work the other way around though) and more time actually getting involved in politics, it would be a much better and fairer system. All the political parties are crying out for members, for campaigners, for councillors... but it's easier to sit in your armchair and moan.

i dont see the posh getting poorer!,only the poor getting poorer,
you talk like people dont have the right to question the people that are running this country!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

i dont see the posh getting poorer!,only the poor getting poorer,
you talk like people dont have the right to question the people that are running this country!

Of course people have a right to question the people who run the country. However, the coalition was voted in mainly because half the country couldn't be arsed to vote. If everyone who had a vote used it, it might be a very different picture.

But it's the same old stuff over and over again. There isn't really any debate, just rabid anti-Tory rants. And I'm not saying they don't deserve it but a bit of balance would be refreshing. However, it's like a Trade Union rally in here at times.

One of the reasons that there are a lot of rich people in politics (in all parties) is that the pay for MPs is crap considering the responsibility they have... not even middle-management level in civvy street. Well qualified people from working class or middle class backgrounds can have a far more lucrative career in business. Even the head of my local authority is paid more than five times what an MP is paid. And before you mention expenses, you would not believe the restraints now in place because some - not all - some MPs abused it, and those who did should be in jail.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Livia

Reading this thread - with one or two exceptions, joey - it's like listening to a fat bloke sitting in an armchair in his team shirt, shouting at a bunch of footballers as if he could really do better. If more people spent less time pontificating and toff-bashing (really... people would be outraged if people were being bashed simply because they were working class, seems it doesn't work the other way around though) and more time actually getting involved in politics, it would be a much better and fairer system. All the political parties are crying out for members, for campaigners, for councillors... but it's easier to sit in your armchair and moan.

Bravo,Livia

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Reading this thread - with one or two exceptions, joey - it's like listening to a fat bloke sitting in an armchair in his team shirt, shouting at a bunch of footballers as if he could really do better. If more people spent less time pontificating and toff-bashing (really... people would be outraged if people were being bashed simply because they were working class, seems it doesn't work the other way around though) and more time actually getting involved in politics, it would be a much better and fairer system. All the political parties are crying out for members, for campaigners, for councillors... but it's easier to sit in your armchair and moan.

Of course,to me your opinion is always very valid and enlightening too.One I respect with the greatest of respect too

I have hoped for to see some compassion and I know I do go on about compassion a lot but I believe a society is only as good as in how its rulers treat the weakest and most vulnerable.
I have voted Conservative for the Council and Lib Dem in the election of 2010.

I already know that in every party there are many 'concensus' politicians who in the main have their best ideas ignored a lot of the time.
I watched avidly these Party Conferences, unbelievable to see no dissenting voices at the Lib Dems, yet not one single Lib Dem member or Councillor I have talked to agrees with how the Parliamentary Lib Dems have voted on so many issues.

The other side is also, I know Conservative councillors who I have even voted for, who also hated the NHS reform bill being even talked about let alone it going through Parliament, they too are concerned strongly as to things like the 'bedroom tax' still to come and the very further intrusive re-assessing of all disabled people,however yet again, no dissenting voices heard at the Conservative conference.
These Councillors aften state they have made their views known to the Party hierarchy, they either haven't or don't get listened to.

I personally come from a privileged background, I have no interest in whether people are snobs or not,in fact I find already in life the worst kind of snobs are working class snobs for looking down on others.

I live my life by a simple guideline, 'if I was walking down the street with just a couple of items in a bag and saw someone struggling with 5 or 6 bags having to keep changing hands, then I would help them with that load'.
I hope if the day comes that I go into Politics,I never lose that train of thought and that I may try to influence that the strong look out for the weak, the rich look out for the most vulnerable.

I haven't seen much of demonising the really strongest and richest of society or the 'taking from' same that I am very sadly seeing as to the disabled in particular, from this Coalition Govt.
I do agree with their aims on a great many issues, however on the NHS,which I was and remain solidly against their reforms there,in fact I don't see where they had any mandate to do them since they were not in any party's manifesto and then also the welfare and Benefit reforms too, while I support the reforms of the welfare and benefit structure,I do not support the means used in the reforms from this Coalition Govt.

Politics to me is a fascinating thing however perhaps,as you say, if people who did feel strongly about injustices that they see and got more involved then things may improve.
As yet,I am in no way a Party political person,I have no allegiance to any party however I do talk to people from all parties, members and Councillors too,(even Lib Dems),I am finding though it is beyond belief how far away local Politicians are from their Parliamentary colleagues as to certain policies.

For me, David Cameron said nothing I could latch onto to see that things will be any different or better as to these problems in the future.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Livia

Reading this thread - with one or two exceptions, joey - it's like listening to a fat bloke sitting in an armchair in his team shirt, shouting at a bunch of footballers as if he could really do better. If more people spent less time pontificating and toff-bashing (really... people would be outraged if people were being bashed simply because they were working class, seems it doesn't work the other way around though) and more time actually getting involved in politics, it would be a much better and fairer system. All the political parties are crying out for members, for campaigners, for councillors... but it's easier to sit in your armchair and moan.

Some people talk the talk, some people walk the walk ..... I've walked the walk many times .....

[Ninastar]

x 10000

[Livia]

Parliamentary politics and local politics are two very different animals, joey. An MP might latch on to an issue that's been brought to his attention by a Councillor, but MPs don't get usually involved in local issues that are in the domain of the council and Councillors don't generally get involved at Parliamentary level... as you know.

I would also like to see more party members (I'm referring to all the parties) given a voice at conference. Unfortunately it's all about press and soundbites. More party members from all parties need to speak out if they are against something, but they have to be careful. If they are not for the party, they are against it. I do know a few councillors who have become disillusioned (one Conservative and a couple of LibDems) who have resigned from their party and continued on the council as independents. I admire them to be honest, standing up to be counted over issues they feel strongly about.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Parliamentary politics and local politics are two very different animals, joey. An MP might latch on to an issue that's been brought to his attention by a Councillor, but MPs don't get usually involved in local issues that are in the domain of the council and Councillors don't generally get involved at Parliamentary level... as you know.

I would also like to see more party members (I'm referring to all the parties) given a voice at conference. Unfortunately it's all about press and soundbites. More party members from all parties need to speak out if they are against something, but they have to be careful. If they are not for the party, they are against it. I do know a few councillors who have become disillusioned (one Conservative and a couple of LibDems) who have resigned from their party and continued on the council as independents. I admire them to be honest, standing up to be counted over issues they feel strongly about.

I doubt I would make a good Party MP Livia, I would likely end up being a rebel.I may mellow as I get older

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I doubt I would make a good Party MP Livia, I would likely end up being a rebel.I may mellow as I get older

You would make a refreshingly wonderful MP, joey.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

You would make a refreshingly wonderful MP, joey.

From you, that is a great confidence booster and praise indeed.Thank you.

[Kizzy]

I'm not surprised, if local councillors are running for the hills it naturally follows that people will vote with their feet.
Unfortunately despite everything most still have a social conscious.

[Niamh.]

Closed for cleaning, can I ask Kizzy and Livia to just not speak to eachother once I reopen? Thanks.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Closed for cleaning, can I ask Kizzy and Livia to just not speak to eachother once I reopen? Thanks.

A request with which I am happy to comply.

[Kizzy]

Thankyou for cleaning not closing niamh, =)
I am really interested in this topic, I'm no expert but i do have an opinion as a citizen of the UK, we are in a transition yet i feel that judging on the speech the PM was advocating the dissolution of communities. which would have a seriously detrimental effect on society as a whole.

[arista]

Kizzy
it's to Early to read so much in this years Politics.





2014
is the one to watch

The Labour Leader has no Policy until then.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Kizzy
it's to Early to read so much in this years Politics.





2014
is the one to watch

The Labour Leader has no Policy until then.

Don't worry what I think about arista... Just post about what you damn well think about the sodding speech!
Thats the point of the fecking thread.

[Cherie]

It would be nice if a government any government (I dont care at this stage which one because in my book they are all the same, promise a lot, and then forget about them once they have gained office) stopped giving themselves inflation busting pay rises, and stopped paying benefit to anyone who happens to turn up in this country. There are EU countries Spain being a typical example who do not pay a penny to anyone who hasnt paid into the system for a period of time, and that goes for whether or not they are a Spanish National, why can't they implement a similar system here, instead of hounding people who pay tax to pay more and more, cutting diabled benefit and child benefit (okay that backfired spectacularly but its only a matter of time before its brought up again and touted as a way of saving the Nation), any party who implemented a similar system would get my vote.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by CherieB

It would be nice if a government any government (I dont care at this stage which one because in my book they are all the same, promise a lot, and then forget about them once they have gained office) stopped giving themselves inflation busting pay rises, and stopped paying benefit to anyone who happens to turn up in this country. There are EU countries Spain being a typical example who do not pay a penny to anyone who hasnt paid into the system for a period of time, and that goes for whether or not they are a Spanish National, why can't they implement a similar system here, instead of hounding people who pay tax to pay more and more, cutting diabled benefit and child benefit (okay that backfired spectacularly but its only a matter of time before its brought up again and touted as a way of saving the Nation), any party who implemented a similar system would get my vote.

Yeah, all that and bang up a few dozen bankers "pour encourager les autres" .....

[arista]

I say its far to Early

2014 is before the May 2015 Election

I think his speech was good
Mild no need to push.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

I say its far to Early

2014 is before the May 2015 Election

I think his speech was good
Mild no need to push.

Fine, my opinion is based on what has happened since 2010 and their plans for the future, thats what i'm trying to say sorry for being abrupt

[arista]

2010
was a better year, Kizzy.


But now Times are Real Hard.
I do not want Labour back - I do not trust them
and we will get so much more in debt.

Inspiration is the Key for the young
and that appears to be in King Simons hands.


A WW3 would change everything.


Whatever your child dreams of
I hope it happens

[thesheriff443]

the goverment feathers its own nest just like this forum!