[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

but you didnt see it that way in the robin hood thread

Banks are insured so it's a win/win situation

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

when you have a lot on your mind its an easy thing to do.

Yeah, I agree with that. I did it once on my lunch when I had a million things to get, I realised though and scared an old man to death racing him to the cash point to get it back....I think he thought I was going to attack him and spent the next 5 minutes trying to explain....he still thought I was crazy when I walked away

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

but you didnt see it that way in the robin hood thread

Stealing from a bank and giving the money to an orphanage isn't the same thing as pocketing someone's benefit or pension. Is it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree with all those saying theft is theft.

However I would be inclined to feel less sympathy for the woman who left cash sticking out of the machine than for the harassed mother. Anyone who doesnt realise they havent taken their cash from a cash machine, has too much of it IMO. Not that it makes it right to steal though...just sayin

..she was an old lady Vicky..she was probably a bit dithery...

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

Stealing from a bank and giving the money to an orphanage isn't the same thing as pocketing someone's benefit or pension. Is it.

its no different,
what you use stolen money for should have no influence on the fact its theft.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

its no different,
what you use stolen money for should have no influence on the fact its theft.

Legally, no. But are these "moral" dilemmas, are they not?

If you want my legal opinion I'm afraid I'm going to have to charge you, Sheriff.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

Legally, no. But are these "moral" dilemmas, are they not?

If you want my legal opinion I'm afraid I'm going to have to charge you, Sheriff.

i cant afford you livia!

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

Legally, no. But are these "moral" dilemmas, are they not?

If you want my legal opinion I'm afraid I'm going to have to charge you, Sheriff.

its a case of putting morals before the law.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

i cant afford you livia!

We finally agree.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

We finally agree.

only on your legal opinion!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

only on your legal opinion!

You didn't get my legal opinion. You got my moral opinion... which is free.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

You didn't get my legal opinion. You got my moral opinion... which is free.

no, im saying i cant afford your legal opinion.

[Kizzy]

Well, It is interesting that morally most think it's theft, I had a sneak peek at the CPS website and legally it seems it's not from what I can see (can't copy & paste soz) but it's seen as 'dishonest'...
What I was really after with this was an opinion on the two men involved.
Only joey commented on both of them, I feel he felt more sympathy for toby than ben even though I tried to keep the senarios as similar as possible.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well, It is interesting that morally most think it's theft, I had a sneak peek at the CPS website and legally it seems it's not from what I can see (can't copy & paste soz) but it's seen as 'dishonest'...
What I was really after with this was an opinion on the two men involved.
Only joey commented on both of them, I feel he felt more sympathy for toby than ben even though I tried to keep the senarios as similar as possible.

you could reverse this by having ben and toby lose their money!
my opinion is,if your struggling for money it still does not make it right to take someone elses.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..you don't have to physically interact with someone to steal from them...that doesn't have any bearing whatsoever..

You mentioned murder not me!

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by kizzy

You mentioned murder not me!

dont give us ideas

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

you could reverse this by having ben and toby lose their money!
my opinion is,if your struggling for money it still does not make it right to take someone elses.

Thankyou! thats sort of what I was after... they were both as bad as each other, but I thought opinion may be divided more due to the(hinted) social differences of ben and toby.
Or there would have been those more annoyed due to the 'victims'. Personally I would have said taking from the old lady was worse....
Anyhoo, the old lady won £6 million on the lottery that week and shared it with her granddaughter and her 4 kids

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Thankyou! thats sort of what I was after... they were both as bad as each other, but I thought opinion may be divided more due to the(hinted) social differences of ben and toby.
Or there would have been those more annoyed due to the 'victims'. Personally I would have said taking from the old lady was worse....
Anyhoo, the old lady won £6 million on the lottery that week and shared it with her granddaughter and her 4 kids

is she single
now thats a joke before we start another moral dilema!

[Ammi]

I really don't understand that analogy ammi,
murder/manslaughter would involve physically interacting with the 'victim' this doesn't


..you don't have to physically interact with someone to steal from them...that doesn't have any bearing whatsoever..

Originally Posted by kizzy

You mentioned murder not me!

..so I presume you're saying a crime involves physical contact with the victim, otherwise it's questionable that it's a crime...what you quoted made no reference to murder at all..that was used in an analogy in a previous post...so that reply to the quoted post is completely irrelevant and makes no sense at all....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

I really don't understand that analogy ammi,
murder/manslaughter would involve physically interacting with the 'victim' this doesn't


..you don't have to physically interact with someone to steal from them...that doesn't have any bearing whatsoever..



..so I presume you're saying a crime involves physical contact with the victim, otherwise it's questionable that it's a crime...what you quoted made no reference to murder at all..that was used in an analogy in a previous post...so that reply to the quoted post is completely irrelevant and makes no sense at all....

No... I was not saying that at all, embezzlement is theft without contact.
My point with this dilemma was showing both men totally innocent but making a decision due to an opportunity that arose.
We knew their personal circumstances, so I wondered if anyone would feel sympathetic to their situations?
I don't know who's more confused by your post ammi me or you! haha!

[Livia]

Allow me to step away from the moral dilemma and clear something up. “Theft” is taking another person’s property without their consent in order to permanently deprive that person of the said property. There is no way to dress it up. The perpetrator is not means tested to gauge how guilty they are. Being poor yourself is not a mitigating circumstance. If you purposefully take something that does not belong to you, it is theft.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Allow me to step away from the moral dilemma and clear something up. “Theft” is taking another person’s property without their consent in order to permanently deprive that person of the said property. There is no way to dress it up. The perpetrator is not means tested to gauge how guilty they are. Being poor yourself is not a mitigating circumstance. If you purposefully take something that does not belong to you, it is theft.

No sorry ... this is a moral dilemma not a legal dilemma livia.

I hope this advice is not a cash in hand job! *tsk*

[Ammi]

..haha indeed Kizzy...so the next time I pass someone who drops their purse, I’ll pop it in my pocket and expect a debate on what sympathy I deserve...after all I didn’t intentionally set out to steal something. It was an opportunity not to be missed..which makes my deed perfectly acceptable...

..I said in my first post that my sympathy lay equally with the two victims and not the people who took from them..there is no excuse for taking something which doesn’t belong to you..whether those victims dropped something/left something is irrelevant..it didn’t belong to the person taking it....the victims were the innocents...

..I have made my posts very clear and am not confused at all..I have responded to the OP, in that I have stated where my sympathies lay...I presume as this is seen as a ‘serious debate’, we can get rid of the ‘hahas’ and debate it as adults...I don’t appreciate the condescending comments either to myself or other members....

..for myself I’m going to consider this as debated as I have nothing further to add to this thread....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..haha indeed Kizzy...so the next time I pass someone who drops their purse, I’ll pop it in my pocket and expect a debate on what sympathy I deserve...after all I didn’t intentionally set out to steal something. It was an opportunity not to be missed..which makes my deed perfectly acceptable...

..I said in my first post that my sympathy lay equally with the two victims and not the people who took from them..there is no excuse for taking something which doesn’t belong to you..whether those victims dropped something/left something is irrelevant..it didn’t belong to the person taking it....the victims were the innocents...

..I have made my posts very clear and am not confused at all..I have responded to the OP, in that I have stated where my sympathies lay...I presume as this is seen as a ‘serious debate’, we can get rid of the ‘hahas’ and debate it as adults...I don’t appreciate the condescending comments either to myself or other members....

..for myself I’m going to consider this as debated as I have nothing further to add to this thread....

Ammi, what are you taking offence at?......
The 'moral debate' was intending to focus on the situations rather than the act itself.
I understood you felt sympathy for the victims, and a serious debate can contain humour.
As far as condescension goes I at times felt I picked that up from yourself, I can be quite sensitive at times however.
Thankyou for your comments In this thread, i'm sorry you thought any part of it was offensive.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

No sorry ... this is a moral dilemma not a legal dilemma livia.

I hope this advice is not a cash in hand job! *tsk*

As much as it pains me to have to reply to you, you are the one Googling the CPS and telling us that it's not theft, it's dishonesty. You brought the CPS into it, not me. So I thought I would give you the benefit of my professional knowledge to put you right.

Incidentally, I pay plenty of tax, and I never work cash in hand. However, I am always happy to do a little pro bono work. Let's say that's what this is.