[GiRTh]

Are the Mail saying that being a benefit cheat was why he killed his kids? I fail to see why they are pointing out his benefits lifestyle. Mick Phillpott is a controlling,. manipulative psycho. He could be a lawyer, a van driver or a benefits cheat the nature of his psychotic tendencies has nothing to do with his lifestyle.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Jack the same story is in here

Whats your Problem,

But that story doesnt try to make out it was because he was on benefits..as far as I can tell by the front page. That was the problem. The story in itself is absolutely horrific, the parents are monsters. But to make out that its because he is on benefits is absolutely disgusting, which was the point of this thread.

Originally Posted by the truth

The newspaper has every right to highlight how this disgusting man and womans horrific lifestyle was funded by and institutionalized by the benefits culture. the vast majority of hard working people could never have afforded 17 childrenand dog breeding. the benefits culture is inextricably tied in with this tragic story. the fact this offends some people who are on benefits is irrelevant. those people who are somehow offended by this connection being made are deluded. they need to forget their own egos and how sensitive they are to this debate. as its a debate that ha sbeen brushed under the carpet for decades. It must be discussed. these people do not deserve to have their disgusting lifestyles funded by the hard work of other honest good living people. if you want 17 kids and dogs you must earn enough money to support them in living a decent healthy life. if you cant do that then the children should be taken from these people asap

You realise this case was literally one in a million? (I mean the benefit situation, not anything else)

These figures are from the daily mail, so they might be exagerrated somewhat too...but here you go.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-broods.html

Families with 10 children...there are 30 of them in the entire country who are recieving JSA. It is unclear how many of those had the kids when they could afford them too.

Any more that 10 kids...and there is no-one 'unemployed' (besides the a few disabled people, who cant work) with that many. Income support is an in work benefit in the majority of cases. Unless the parent is a single parent.

Now. That doesnt make this story any less tragic. And the benefits argument takes away from what this story is really about. But I hate when people seem to think there are loads of massive families in the uk who just keep having kids for more money, despite not having a job.


The parents of these children are absolute *****. I dont think anyone would deny that. No child should have to go through what those kids did/are, and RIP to the ones who did not survive. But to link what they did with recieving benefits is terrible. But I would expect nothing less of the mail and its readers.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by the truth

The newspaper has every right to highlight how this disgusting man and womans horrific lifestyle was funded by and institutionalized by the benefits culture. the vast majority of hard working people could never have afforded 17 children and dog breeding. the benefits culture is inextricably tied in with this tragic story. the fact this offends some people who are on benefits is irrelevant. those people who are somehow offended by this connection being made are deluded. they need to forget their own egos and how sensitive they are to this debate. as its a debate that ha sbeen brushed under the carpet for decades. It must be discussed. these people do not deserve to have their disgusting lifestyles funded by the hard work of other honest good living people. if you want 17 kids and dogs you must earn enough money to support them in living a decent healthy life. if you cant do that then the children should be taken from these people asap

Good Post , I totally agree this madness has gone on now for decades, the Welfare state was set up after the War to help people re-adjust to life and act as a short term safety net for poor families with disabled or sick breadwinners (the effects of the War were felt for decades).

It was not ever meant to fund generation after generation of idle work shy spongers, it is not meant to provide a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If you look at countries that do not have a welfare/benefits system if you don't work then you don't EAT so people who can work usually do.

This vile man an extreme example of everything that is wrong with our Welfare system, he gambled with his children's lives just to try and keep them with him so he could carry on spending their child benefit, it was also reported that he thought the fire damage would mean he would get a much larger house.

The fact that he talked his wife and another friend into going along with this dangerously stupid plan speaks volumes about his control over people.

I hope they all receive life sentences (max allowed for Manslaughter) and I hope the Judge recommends he is not released for at least 25 years.

At least now he doesn't have to worry about his board and lodgings...!!!!!

[arista]

"These figures are from the daily mail, so they might be exagerrated somewhat too."


Yes Vicky
but its got backing on Every TV News
even live now on ITV1HD Loose Women.
DM photo page used


On BBCNews Live
Ann Widdecombe talking about when she stayed with them

[joeysteele]

Crumbs arista what a combination, Loose Women and Ann Widdecombe,I would avoid even listening to either of them.
Ann widdecombe like Ian Duncan Smith is another one who bleats on about their faith and Christianity yet are the biggest turn offs to it.

A far more balanced and sensible approach to this tragedy is the thrust of the Guardian reporting of it whereas the Mails is just despicable.

[arista]

Yes the Guardian is OK


But the DM front page gets on FoxNewsHD ,CNNAmerica
and NDTV24x7 India

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

"These figures are from the daily mail, so they might be exagerrated somewhat too."


Yes Vicky
but its got backing on Every TV News
even live now on ITV1HD Loose Women.
DM photo page used


On BBCNews Live
Ann Widdecombe talking about when she stayed with them

I meant the figures about how many people who dont work who actually have loads of children

Taking one extreme case like this and trying to smear all claimants the same is just plain wrong.

The worst thing about this whole story, is the parents (I do not care how many people say the wife was talked into it...shes just as evil as he is and should get the same sentance) should be locked up for the rest of their lives. And I fear they will get short sentences due to the softness of our 'justice' system.

[Kizzy]

Wow the tabloids really do what they say on the tin don't they?
I am shocked and stunned at how they influence people, and how aggressively they do it too.

[arista]

"smear all claimants the same is just plain wrong."


Yes it is Vicky.
you have that right.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Wow the tabloids really do what they say on the tin don't they?
I am shocked and stunned at how they influence people, and how aggressively they do it too.

Yes but it gets the Readers all over this World.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Wow the tabloids really do what they say on the tin don't they?
I am shocked and stunned at how they influence people, and how aggressively they do it too.

They don't and never will influence me at all though Kizzy, I do read sometimes articles but I know my own mind and as for the likes of the Daily Mail I have absolutely no time for at all.

Also the Sun, with their old dinosaur Trevor Kavanagh,I don't think I have agreed more than 5 times with him on anything political.

I do agree though, they do seem to influence people and to me that is worrying since much of the press has an agenda and also reports in a biased way.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I meant the figures about how many people who dont work who actually have loads of children

Taking one extreme case like this and trying to smear all claimants the same is just plain wrong.

The worst thing about this whole story, is the parents (I do not care how many people say the wife was talked into it...shes just as evil as he is and should get the same sentance) should be locked up for the rest of their lives. And I fear they will get short sentences due to the softness of our 'justice' system.

Absolutely, standing back and letting someone put your children in danger (and them actually ending up dead) is as bad as lighting the match yourself imo. Disgusting excuse of a human being and mother

[Kizzy]

Then they will always win, whatever the government try to do that goes against any moral or social responsibility, to the ill and the old as well as the jobless as these reforms are far reaching and have an impact on them too..
Yet all we hear and see is stories like this and pictures of single mothers, when will we have a true representation of those in the benefits system?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Absolutely, standing back and letting someone put your children in danger (and them actually ending up dead) is as bad as lighting the match yourself imo. Disgusting excuse of a human being and mother

I have some sympathy with the wife - Not much but some - He stabbed one woman 12 times who dared to leave him in 1978 and the other woman who left him he tried to frame her for the fire. He is the main culprit but, for sure, his wife must take some of the blame.

Men like him are, in my experience, very rarely single. My aunt had an abusive relationship with a guy and when she finally left him we found out less than 6 months later that he'd re-married. He was a charmer so we weren't that surprised. Men like Philpott prey on weak and vulnerable - and usually - young women so I give them some slack.

Philpott is total scum. To hatch the plan to start the fire then be the hero is incredible. Did he not see the obvious flaws in his plan? Clearly not, he was a psycho who would stop at nothing to get what he wanted. No matter who got hurt or even killed. Hope he rots in jail.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I have some sympathy with the wife - Not much but some - He stabbed one woman 12 times who dared to leave him in 1978 and the other woman who left him he tried to frame her for the fire. He is the main culprit but, for sure, his wife must take some of the blame.

Men like him are, in my experience, very rarely single. My aunt had an abusive relationship with a guy and when she finally left him we found out less than 6 months later that he'd re-married. He was a charmer so we weren't that surprised. Men like Philpott prey on weak and vulnerable - and usually - young women so I give them some slack.

Philpott is total scum. To hatch the plan to start the fire then be the hero is incredible. Did he not see the obvious flaws in his plan? Clearly not, he was a psycho who would stop at nothing to get what he wanted. No matter who got hurt or even killed. Hope he rots in jail.

I see your points, It's just as a mother myself I couldn't imagine standing back and letting someone put my kids in danger like that, even if by disagreeing it put my own life in danger. Mothers should be willing to die for their kids imo

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I see your points, It's just as a mother myself I couldn't imagine standing back and letting someone put my kids in danger like that, even if by disagreeing it put my own life in danger. Mothers should be willing to die for their kids imo

I agree.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I meant the figures about how many people who dont work who actually have loads of children

Taking one extreme case like this and trying to smear all claimants the same is just plain wrong.

The worst thing about this whole story, is the parents (I do not care how many people say the wife was talked into it...shes just as evil as he is and should get the same sentance) should be locked up for the rest of their lives. And I fear they will get short sentences due to the softness of our 'justice' system.

no one is saying that? only you have mentioned that?
there are however thousands tens of thousands who deliberately milk the system to have kids free homes, free everything , brreed dogs and live a disgusting lazy lifestyle of zero work and no ambition or achievement. these people disgust me and this clown is the worst type of example. to simply avoid discussing it for fear of offending someone on benefits would be wholly wrong. theses people are revolting and its disgusting the hard work of good people should pay to sustain and rewar this disgusting lifestyle. I feel especially sorry for the kids too.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then they will always win, whatever the government try to do that goes against any moral or social responsibility, to the ill and the old as well as the jobless as these reforms are far reaching and have an impact on them too..
Yet all we hear and see is stories like this and pictures of single mothers, when will we have a true representation of those in the benefits system?

everyone is a true representation. Its wrong to have kids and expect the government to pay for all the bills, its also a disgusting example to show children to show them you dont have to work, you can just ask for handouts. people who cant afford children shouldnt have them or should allow them to be adopted.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

no one is saying that? only you have mentioned that?
there are however thousands tens of thousands who deliberately milk the system to have kids free homes, free everything , brreed dogs and live a disgusting lazy lifestyle of zero work and no ambition or achievement. these people disgust me and this clown is the worst type of example. to simply avoid discussing it for fear of offending someone on benefits would be wholly wrong. theses people are revolting and its disgusting the hard work of good people should pay to sustain and rewar this disgusting lifestyle. I feel especially sorry for the kids too.

Do you have proof that tens of thousands have kids just to have free homes? I would like to see it as its something I have seen written quite regularly yet have never seen anything to actually back it up.

The bit in bold is ridiculous. Noone has said discussion about it has to be avoided so as not to offend those on benefits. The problem is the deliberately provocative headline/story in the sun, that makes out that this happened because of benefits.

The father was employed as a soldier at the time he almost stabbed a woman to death in 1978....long before any of these children came along.

Following the Mail's logic here.. was that crime because he was "a product of the British Army"?

He was a sick individual long before he started claiming benefits. To say this is a 'product of the welfare' state makes no sense whatsoever.

Also the mail forgot to mention that the family were in work. The man might not have worked, but the women did. Both women in the story worked and recieved tax credits along with wages. Its not a case of just 'breeding' and expecting others to pay.

[Vicky.]

A balanced view on this headline

Well worth a read

http://www.newstatesman.com/alan-whi...uct-welfare-uk


On a side note, perhaps it would be a better idea to have two seperate threads on this. One about the mails disgusting and inappropriate choice of wording, and another about the actual tragedy. So that the two dont get mixed up. It doesnt really feel right to be arguing about benefits when the real issue here is that 6 innocent children were killed :/

[Niall]

It's abhorrent to see them exploiting such a sad story to flog their age old propaganda that is 'the benefits system is ruining the country'.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niall

It's abhorrent to see them exploiting such a sad story to flog their age old propaganda that is 'the benefits system is ruining the country'.

Fully agree with you.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niall

It's abhorrent to see them exploiting such a sad story to flog their age old propaganda that is 'the benefits system is ruining the country'.

I fully disagree with you. the only thing abohorrent here is the 3 adults who brought on this tragedy. its high time scum like this and the system that supports their disgusting lifestyles were brought to book

[AnnieK]

The abhorrent thing in this story is that these children lost their lives. For me it would equally abhorrent if they had been three fully employed adults...the fact that they were benefit claimants is by the by for me when these innocent children lost their chance to grow up.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by anniek76

The abhorrent thing in this story is that these children lost their lives. For me it would equally abhorrent if they had been three fully employed adults...the fact that they were benefit claimants is by the by for me when these innocent children lost their chance to grow up.

This, couldn't have put it better