[joeysteele]

I think this is likely, it would now surprise me if Labour also don't offer a referendum to be honest.
Really any govt. worth anything should be trying to gain a better deal on things as to the EU.

If I was Ed Miliband,I would sit back and watch how all this chaos in the Conservative progresses before I made any commitment to a referendum.
He clearly doesn't want one but I do feel events will likely take over and he may need to offer one by 2015.

Even in that situation,if I wanted a referendum,which I don't, I would more likely put my trust in him to actually deliver one than in David Cameron.

I know of a good few Labour MPs who do want a referendum,the good thing for Labour last night is that they stuck by their leader and didn't vote for one while the Conservatives had near or even half of their backbench take matters into their own hands and vote against their own govts. decision not to include a referendum commitment in their govts.own Queen's speech.

Doesn't sound like a competent party for to continue in govt for me.

One thing is for sure though, Nigel Farage and UKIP have certainly strirred things up and made the biggest change as to politics in the UK by now not just setting the talking point agenda but also as to the main parties policy making too.
I expect Nigel Farage will be really enjoying watching all this develop and full credit to him for exposing the haphazard plans of the Conservatives and making the others likely have to think their positions too.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If I was Ed Miliband,I would sit back and watch how all this chaos in the Conservative progresses before I made any commitment to a referendum.
He clearly doesn't want one but I do feel events will likely take over and he may need to offer one by 2015.

Miliband may be a mere MP by then, too .....

[Kizzy]

I don't think many actually know what a full opt out would entail, just opting out of EU crime and justice would have dire consequences, no wonder dave is dragging his heels here and he only has 12 months left to decide...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19946466

[joeysteele]

I still cannot see Labour losing the election now, they may miss out just on an overall majority but not lose it. I expect at the very least a Labour/Lib Dem coalition.
The Conservatives will never get an agreement with the Lib Dems with the EU issue in the future in my view.

I also cannot see Labour replacing Ed Miliband either although you Omah could have a point.
I wouldn't completely rule that out simply because a new leader could more credibly come in and be in favour of a referendum too.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I also cannot see Labour replacing Ed Miliband either although you Omah could have a point.

Clegg will be replaced, too .....

It will be a completely new ball game, with UKIP being the only major political party to retain their current leader .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Clegg will be replaced, too .....

It will be a completely new ball game, with UKIP being the only major political party to retain their current leader .....

no doubt about that, he was caught between a rock and a hard place cosying up to the tories. Really looking forward to his autobiography, it may explain why he made some of the catastrophic decisions he did.
A libdem/ conservative alliance was never going to be easy. I would love to see more of Ed, I think an intellectual running the country would be beneficial.
Farage is a joke, he has no depth to his reasonings.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Omah

Clegg will be replaced, too .....

It will be a completely new ball game, with UKIP being the only major political party to retain their current leader .....

Similar to the state of play at the top of the Premier League with only Arsenal keeping the same Manager (Man Utd,Man City & Chelsea all changing their's)

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Similar to the state of play at the top of the Premier League with only Arsenal keeping the same Manager (Man Utd,Man City & Chelsea all changing their's)

An excellent analogy ....

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

David Cameron has promised a referendum on whether Britain should remain in the European Union in 2017, if the Conservatives win the next general election. Here is a summary of the key arguments for and against British membership.

Food for thought .....

[Kizzy]

Has anyone read the views and opinions of 'fluffy' boris?....wolf in sheeps clothing that one!

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Has anyone read the views and opinions of 'fluffy' boris?....wolf in sheeps clothing that one!

I am not a fan of Boris at all.

[billy123]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Has anyone read the views and opinions of 'fluffy' boris?....wolf in sheeps clothing that one!

The scary part is people dont take the time to look beyond his buffoon act they would vote for him because he is wacky when the truth he is a manipulative nasty piece of work. But he is wacky yay! that really is a worry i despair sometimes.

If he became leader his court jester act would go on while the torys continued to suck the last few drops of blood out of Britain.

[Jack_]

Boris is a great speaker but his politics are frightening. I'd rather have Dave over him

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22585228

David Cameron is losing control of his party over Europe, former Conservative cabinet minister Lord Howe has said.

The Tory leadership is "running scared" of its backbenchers by offering to renegotiate the UK's relationship with Brussels, he said in the Observer.

He also warned that if a proposed referendum led to the UK leaving the EU, there would be dire consequences for the country's global influence.

The Tories said the PM's position on seeking to return powers was unchanged.

Lord Howe's warning comes amid press reports that a figure close to the prime minister called grassroots Conservatives pushing for an EU referendum "mad, swivel-eyed loons".

No 10 denied "anyone in Downing Street" had made the remarks, while party co-chairman Lord Feldman said he was taking legal advice over "untrue" web rumours he had made "derogatory comments".

Writing in Sunday's Observer newspaper, Lord Howe said Mr Cameron had "opened a Pandora's box politically and seems to be losing control of his party in the process", over his plan to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the European Union.

"The ratchet-effect of Euroscepticism has now gone so far that the Conservative leadership is in effect running scared of its own backbenchers, let alone UKIP, having allowed deep anti-Europeanism to infect the very soul of the party," wrote Lord Howe, a former foreign secretary, chancellor and deputy prime minister under Margaret Thatcher.

He added: "The Conservative Party's long, nervous breakdown over Europe continues and what is essentially a Tory problem is now, once again, becoming a national problem.

"Serious mistakes have been made, but the situation is not irretrievable."

Lord Howe Lord Howe is a former foreign secretary and chancellor
A "mixture of clear thinking, strong leadership and an overriding concern for the national interest, not party management or advantage" was needed, he said.

RBTL. David's days are numbered .....

[joeysteele]

Well it was really Geoffrey Howe that made the main speech that led to Mrs Thatcher's downfall, who knows now.

I mostly agree with him, I support being in Europe, if there was a fair and balanced debate on Europe then possibly I would be in favour of a referendum.
We will not however get that from the media at all overall.
I fear more people will be even more confused as to the EU after such a debate than they were likely before.

I know a lot of people who would prefer to stay in the EU, however few of them would bother to go out and vote in a referendum and especially if it was held way after a General election, the turnout would be really likely poor overall anyway.
The people I know who are against being the EU, they would go out in hail rain or snow to cast their votes so determined are they to that cause.

It could well be that even after a long debate as to Europe, what happens is more would possibly prefer to remain in the EU but would just sit back and not vote in a very badly timed referendum,which could see up sleepwalk out of Europe as those against it likely near all cast their votes..

That is what is dangerous as to this whole idea of David Cameron's and as Lord Howe says, it could have dire consequences for the UK overall.

[Kizzy]

The thatcherites are massing.... Let them all defect to UKIP with the rest of the blinkered pompous xenophobes. Did anyone see farage in Scotland? faced with a handful of protesters he came apart at the seams and refused an interview! Spineless and incompetent.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The thatcherites are massing.... Let them all defect to UKIP with the rest of the blinkered pompous xenophobes. Did anyone see farage in Scotland? faced with a handful of protesters he came apart at the seams and refused an interview! Spineless and incompetent.

Yes that was Amazing
Lucky Police Protected him

[Omah]

Another Tory schism is in the offing .....

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22585916# (video)

He told Jeremy Vine that the current relationship was not working in Britain's interest and Conservative backbenchers wanted a new relationship based on trade.

Speaking on the Andrew Marr Show the Conservative MP said that this negotiation 'won't wait' because ministers were unable to do what they wanted to do as 'Europe won't let them'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22585916# (video)

Knew that it was all based on trade, they want to barter with tyrants like maggie did.

[arista]

[arista]

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22586142

The Conservative Party is "united" and David Cameron is showing leadership on Britain's relationship with Europe, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said.

Mr Hunt's intervention comes amid media reports of splits within the Conservatives, and anger among party activists at reported comments by a member of Mr Cameron's inner circle that Tory grassroots Eurosceptics were "mad, swivel-eyed loons".

The health secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show that he did not believe anyone close to Mr Cameron made those comments and they did not reflect the views of the prime minister.

He added: "If you look at the substance of the issue, the Conservative Party is absolutely united.

"We look at the European Union and we worry about Britain's ability to compete in the global race... the Conservative Party says if we are going to be successful in that global race we need to renegotiate our relationship with Europe and give the British people a say."

Mr Cameron was "showing leadership" and not sweeping serious issues under the carpet: "He and I would like to have a relationship with Europe where we can stay in the European Union and be confident we can be successful in the global race," Mr Hunt said.

Fine words from "Mr Incompetunt" but they butter no parsnips .....

[arista]

[joeysteele]

I think he is a dangerous PM, playing with so many issues that are really important and need careful thought and more to the point cross party consensus preferably really.

He just dives in with what the thinks seems a popular measure then makes a massive mess of presentation and then the whole run through as to it too.
He allows rumour to run rife for ages before trying to clamp down on things and seem to gather any sort of control as to events.
He had this chaos with the NHS reforms too.

Now he is allowing his MPs to talk about some arrangement or joint standing in the 2015 election with UKIP.
It is getting really ridiculous.

I hope he and the Conservatives stay where they are in the polls because, (I doubt it very much but cannot rule out),just maybe the Scots so fed up of being ignored on major issues,may feel rather than risk another Conservative Govt literally dictating to them, a Conservative Govt too possibly leading to a sleepwalk out of the EU that they may well come to think 'independence' is the better option.

This PM is walking a dangerous path on 2 major issues, he could lead us,( and he excludes the Welsh too, hardly anyone talks of Wales in Conservative circles as to the EU issue), to the break up of the UK as we know it and also out on a limb from the EU too.
All this on an issue he has no intention of doing anything at all about for at least 2 years, which will also be dependent on him getting an overall majority in 2015, something he failed terribly to do in 2010,with no final resolution for at least 4 to 5 years as to it from now either.

What shortsightedness and not only pathetically poor leadership of his party but of the entire UK as well.