[Kizzy]

Well we shall wait and see what the investigators have to say shall we?

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/06/galler...-hill-3830566/

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well we shall wait and see what the investigators have to say shall we?

When I wrote my posts I was referring to the article in the OP. The one you said it would help if people read properly. Nowhere in that article did it say the EDL was responsible nor was there any actual evidence that the fire was started deliberately. Yet everyone immediately jumped on the bandwaggon as usual. Once there is evidence it's a different matter, and it appears that now there is actual evidence and it is not longer just a story about a fire.

It saddens me that odious crimes and racism are made so much more unpleasant by people assuming. It's a dangerous thing to do.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Livia

If you want to talk about narrow-mindedness, there are a fair few narrow minded people in the Muslim community. Those who want to bring Sharia Law here for instance, who keep their women at home pregnant, barefoot and speaking their native language, who hate the British way of life... if I was a Muslim, I would want to distance myself from those people, and clearly many decent Muslims want to do that.

I find it slightly offensive that you're calling for anyone but terrorist scum to be exterminated, frankly.

Livia, Jack never said he wanted anyone but terrorist scum to be exterminated so hope your less offended now.

On topic I think its saddening to see peoples places of worship burnt to the ground ,so glad nobody was hurt.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

When I wrote my posts I was referring to the article in the OP. The one you said it would help if people read properly. Nowhere in that article did it say the EDL was responsible nor was there any actual evidence that the fire was started deliberately. Yet everyone immediately jumped on the bandwaggon as usual. Once there is evidence it's a different matter, and it appears that now there is actual evidence and it is not longer just a story about a fire.

It saddens me that odious crimes and racism are made so much more unpleasant by people assuming. It's a dangerous thing to do.

When I commented I had already read an article and could comment with some confidence on the outline of the facts here.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I keep saying that Muslim leaders need to be far more vocal in their response to the Woolwich murder. Not just condemning the act but using the incident to shock the mainstream Muslim masses into finally coming out publicly and questioning the whole area of radicalisation amongst young muslim men.

To publicly state that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance not hatred war and murder. To my mind the Muslim majority in the UK must stand up and be counted as their comparative silence amongst some sections gives succour to some of these hate filled evil preaching Imams.

Non Muslims in the UK cannot continue to stand up alone and state that the Majority of Muslims in the UK are against the way their religion is twisted by extremism when the majority of Muslims in the UK stay silent.

I don't know where the assumption always comes from that Muslim groups don't condemn or stand against things like this, after every terror attack all major Islamic organisations are the first to condemn it and a lot of them do a lot of good work in trying to turn people away from radicalism

The other problem is that telling Muslims specifically that they are obligated to strongly condemn this implies that they are all somehow implicated and culpable for terror attacks, something that no one really expects of all catholics after an IRA shooting, or of protestants after a Loyalist killing

Originally Posted by Livia

"the centre's leaders had told him they had seen freshly sprayed racist graffiti on the building and that they were concerned the fire was in reaction to the killing of a soldier in Woolwich."

There is hearsay that someone had seen some "racist grafitti" on the building, and no where does it say that the EDL was responsible. As usual there's a knee-jerk from people when we hear the word "Muslim". Articles like this add fuel to the fire - no pun intended. Once there is some evidence, then people can get all outraged.

Not a knee jerk reaction at all, by the time I had written my post the police had confirmed that EDL graffiti had been found. True enough it started as logical speculation, but that was speculation which has now been justified

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I don't know where the assumption always comes from that Muslim groups don't condemn or stand against things like this, after every terror attack all major Islamic organisations are the first to condemn it and a lot of them do a lot of good work in trying to turn people away from radicalism

The other problem is that telling Muslims specifically that they are obligated to strongly condemn this implies that they are all somehow implicated and culpable for terror attacks, something that no one really expects of all catholics after an IRA shooting, or of protestants after a Loyalist killing



Not a knee jerk reaction at all, by the time I had written my post the police had confirmed that EDL graffiti had been found. True enough it started as logical speculation, but that was speculation which has now been justified

I agree with your comments that most Muslim organisations do condemn attacks like these, but I feel more could be done by Muslim organisations in the UK to teach young Muslims that Islam is a religion of peace and love. Correct interpretation of the Koran might help as it is a difficult book to correctly interpret if Arabic is not ones first language. Radical extremism is often given legality by mis-interpreting passages from the Koran to cite war, murder, Jihad etc... but speak to any normal Imam and he will tell you that the Koran does not allow evil acts of this kind.

Muslim communities in the UK need to really try and expose and eradicate these minority elements that teach the extremist views...!!!

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=MTVN;6037219]I don't know where the assumption always comes from that Muslim groups don't condemn or stand against things like this, after every terror attack all major Islamic organisations are the first to condemn it and a lot of them do a lot of good work in trying to turn people away from radicalism

The other problem is that telling Muslims specifically that they are obligated to strongly condemn this implies that they are all somehow implicated and culpable for terror attacks, something that no one really expects of all catholics after an IRA shooting, or of protestants after a Loyalist killing

He isn't saying that... What he is saying is there is more that could be done.
Everyone in the UK is obligated to stop this, by asking communities for help you are not implicating them....
How else are we to find a solution, we have to have intelligence from somewhere to get a handle on where and what or who the threat is?
It's not unacceptable to want everyone involved in counter terrorism.