[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Jessica‪

The whole point of this topic is that people like this exist in society whether we like it or not, if it was acceptable for them to get help then they would be less of a danger to society. I firmly believe that nobody can choose who they are attracted to, but obviously anyone can control their actions. I wouldn't praise a paedophile for keeping their hands off kids because it is common knowledge that children can't give consent. The ones who act on their urges are disgusting abominations who don't deserve any forgiveness or respect.

Take this as an example.

(a) An adult man is attracted to women, does that mean he will abuse a woman?
(b) An adult man is attracted to children, does that mean he will abuse a child?

Imagine (a) goes out and abuses a 25 year old woman, does a few years in prison, deals with all of the repercussions and is able to get out and live the rest of his life after ruining the life of that woman whom he abused.

If (b) goes his whole life avoiding children, only going out at night, not socialising, keeping away from his family members, not having any children of his own, essentially never laying a finger on a child, people in this day and age would think of him as more of a threat to society than (a).

Should it be that hard to control their urges?

For argument's sake let's accept that paedophile's have no control over their attractions, but why should it require that much self control not to carry out what is obviously a disgusting act? If a man sees an attractive woman walking down the street he might feel the urge to sleep with her but that wouldn't mean he has to go to great lengths to stop himself assaulting her. Why would a paedophile's urges be so much more overpowering that he has to lock himself away to stop himself acting on them

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Should it be that hard to control their urges?

For argument's sake let's accept that paedophile's have no control over their attractions, but why should it require that much self control not to carry out what is obviously a disgusting act? If a man sees an attractive woman walking down the street he might feel the urge to sleep with her but that wouldn't mean he has to go to great lengths to stop himself assaulting her. Why would a paedophile's urges be so much more overpowering that he has to lock himself away to stop himself acting on them

I am not saying it has to be like that for all paedophiles, I was just creating a sheltered example for the sake of the thread to make a point, I didn't say every non-offending paedophile locks themselves away.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Should it be that hard to control their urges?

For argument's sake let's accept that paedophile's have no control over their attractions, but why should it require that much self control not to carry out what is obviously a disgusting act? If a man sees an attractive woman walking down the street he might feel the urge to sleep with her but that wouldn't mean he has to go to great lengths to stop himself assaulting her. Why would a paedophile's urges be so much more overpowering that he has to lock himself away to stop himself acting on them

I would imagine the overwhelming majority of people in life will have sexual relations with some one or other at points in their life. Most regularly through relationships. Total self seclusion from any form of sexual contact would be a difficult task and for someone that is exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children that would mean total seclusion from sex altogether.

If someone told me as a teenager I would never have sex with women ever and i would never be able to I really can't imagine how hard that for me that would be.

As abhorrent as pedophilia is I just can't help feel sympathy for those who are struck by it and spend their entire lives resisting whatever urges befall them.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I would imagine the overwhelming majority of people in life will have sexual relations with some one or other at points in their life. Most regularly through relationships. Total self seclusion from any form of sexual contact would be a difficult task and for someone that is exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children that would mean total seclusion from sex altogether.

If someone told me as a teenager I would never have sex with women ever and i would never be able to I really can't imagine how hard that for me that would be.

As abhorrent as pedophilia is I just can't help feel sympathy for those who are struck by it and spend their entire lives resisting whatever urges befall them.

That's true but I still think the act would be so abhorrent that it'd be fairly easy for anyone with a conscience not to act on any urges they have. And though only a tiny minority of people will go through life celibate a lot of people still do it, and those who don't may easily go months, maybe even years without having sex. I don't think it's the knowledge that at some point in the future they will have sex that stops people acting on their urges, it's just that they know there's obviously no justification for doing it without consent

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That's true but I still think the act would be so abhorrent that it'd be fairly easy for anyone with a conscience not to act on any urges they have. And though only a tiny minority of people will go through life celibate a lot of people still do it, and those who don't may easily go months, maybe even years without having sex. I don't think it's the knowledge that at some point in the future they will have sex that stops people acting on their urges, it's just that they know there's obviously no justification for doing it without consent

It's not just about preventing from acting on urges, it's the fact they would feel guilty just by finding a child attractive in the first place. There would be no reason for someone who is attracted to adults to feel guilty.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That's true but I still think the act would be so abhorrent that it'd be fairly easy for anyone with a conscience not to act on any urges they have. And though only a tiny minority of people will go through life celibate a lot of people still do it, and those who don't may easily go months, maybe even years without having sex. I don't think it's the knowledge that at some point in the future they will have sex that stops people acting on their urges, it's just that they know there's obviously no justification for doing it without consent

I would like to think most people will have that chain of thought in their minds if they ever feel the urge to do something and I'm sure they do.

Still for those that go their entire lives not engaging in sex that people like us take for granted as a typical human luxury because the people they are attracted to are grossly underage, they have my deepest condolences.

[Me. I Am Salman]

if they can't help the way they feel and are doing their utmost to not act on their urges I don't see why they should be stigmatised

[In the Drunk Tank]

This article addresses quite a lot of the issues, this is what it has about innate vs learned

there is a growing conviction, notably in Canada, that paedophilia should probably be classified as a distinct sexual orientation, like heterosexuality or homosexuality. Two eminent researchers testified to that effect to a Canadian parliamentary commission last year, and the Harvard Mental Health Letter of July 2010 stated baldly that paedophilia "is a sexual orientation" and therefore "unlikely to change".

Child protection agencies and many who work with sex offenders dislike this. "Broadly speaking, in the world of people who work with sex offenders here, [paedophilia] is learned behaviour," says Donald Findlater, director of research and development at the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, a charity dedicated to preventing child sexual abuse, and, before it closed, manager of leading treatment centre the Wolvercote Clinic. "There may be some vulnerabilities that could be genetic, but normally there are some significant events in a person's life, a sexually abusive event, a bullying environment … I believe it is learned, and can be unlearned."

Chris Wilson of Circles UK, which helps released offenders, also rejects the idea that paedophilia is a sexual orientation: "The roots of that desire for sex with a child lie in dysfunctional psychological issues to do with power, control, anger, emotional loneliness, isolation."

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

This article addresses quite a lot of the issues, this is what it has about innate vs learned

I don't understand why people would even think about considering it as a sexual orientation, to me orientation refers to the gender you're attracted to whether it's one or both. Peadophillia is a demented fetish and even thinking of considering it anything like a sexual orientation sounds like a justification to me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't understand why people would even think about considering it as a sexual orientation, to me orientation refers to the gender you're attracted to whether it's one or both. Peadophillia is a demented fetish and even thinking of considering it anything like a sexual orientation sounds like a justification to me.

It may be just a deviance, who knows. To you it might do, as said how many studies are there?
If they don't act on their urges they are innocent, like a psychopath that hasn't killed anyone yet.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It may be just a deviance, who knows. To you it might do, as said how many studies are there?
If they don't act on their urges they are innocent, like a psychopath that hasn't killed anyone yet.

Not all Psychopaths kill though, the ones who don't usually wreck lives in some other way.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by InOne

Not all Psychopaths kill though, the ones who don't usually wreck lives in some other way.

And I would think not all pedophiles abuse kids, they might just become reclusive and suicidal?
Who knows, it is a really odd thing to try to imagine isn't it?

[Samuel.]

Will make sure I listen tomorrow.

It's a really interesting topic that I feel people become too emotionally involved to discuss.

[Samuel.]

There may be help out there for those in question, but it's the stigma that's attached to it that would make it ultimately almost impossible to seek out. You'd potentially be labelled as a sick monster for the rest of your living life, regardless of if the therapy helped or not.

I don't believe it's a sexual orientation, but neither is it a choice.

[Ammi]

...wow, a difficult topic Jack and I will admit to not having listened to the interview and just read the OP..I don't understand the comparison to any sexuality in that it doesn't involve 'compliance' and there is a perpetrator and a victim/a 'power' and a vulnerability, which doesn't define a sexuality, does it...I guess to me a better comparison would be rape or sexual abuse..?..which has nothing to do with sex at all, it's an act of violence and a 'hate' act...

..anyway, as a mother and also someone who has personal experience of attending the 'interviews with the victims/children' and social workers etc, my first instinct would be to think of paedophiles as despicable human beings, but I also can't help but think in these interviews I've been present at...here is a victim and potentially a perpetrator as well in that I think we're all aware that the damage and confusion caused to the child and their associations with what has been done to them can then cause them to do the same themselves and the 'cycle' continues...of course this isn't always the case, not all paedophiles were themselves abused and not all abused children become paedophiles but it is something that happens so to have empathy, you really have to look at every single abuse individually and that's just something that isn't practical because you would drive yourself crazy thinking about it...

... I think paedophilia is a mental illness, in this particular case of the 19yr old and reading that his mum is trying to seek help for him, therefore he's discussed it with her..?..and before he has acted is good in that she can seek help for him in the same way she would for a child who had any other mental illness/I don't know if he's ever been abused himself obviously...in an ideal world, mental illness when identified as such would then get support and help that they needed and especially with something like this when that person may have once been the victim themselves and before it is acted on and destroys another child's life/family's life...there are also paedophiles who are probably just really evil nasty people as well though..?..anyway this is not an ideal world and I think generally, people with 'identified' mental health illnesses are just basically 'outcast/forgotten' and for that same old chestnut of 'funding' 'cutbacks'..which is so sad because maybe there is a chance that in an 'ideal' world, some potential paedophiles may be prevented from becoming actual ones, who knows...anyway, an interesting discussion topic and whatever the reasoning for what paedophiles do as in their own experiences etc and maybe them also being victims themselves..the fact and the outcome is that they 'destroy' children and potentially create images of themselves and not just destroy their childhood but sadly so often destroy their whole lives...

[Shaun]

I don't see why so many people are getting caught up in semantics (who cares if it's an innate orientation or a perversion? Neither are voluntary).

I do think a lot of taboo sexual attractions are uh... bizarre, but not the monstrosities they're painted out to be. Incest, in particular - obviously the idea of getting jiggy with a relative grosses me out but given the huge variety of family upbringings and weird things that happen to relationships, I don't quite get why it's illegal for, essentially, two consenting adults (yes, emphasis on the consenting) to be together. I understand the genetic repercussions if there's procreation involved, but if it were, in effect, a childless relationship?

I do wonder how society attitudes will change in years to come now that a major alternative sexuality (the homos <3) has been given so much acceptance and equal legislation. I don't compare homosexuality with paedophilia in any other way than they're both involuntary sexual impulses, but I do think the hysteria with which everyone reacts to this subject is ridiculous and counter-productive. If anything, thrusting the words sick, criminal, psychopath at these people from the moment they're aware of their attractions just turns them onto the line of thought that goes "right, if I want to get my rocks off, I'm gonna have to break the law". Accepting you're already a criminal so you might as well, if you will. Therapy is clearly the way forward.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I don't see why so many people are getting caught up in semantics (who cares if it's an innate orientation or a perversion? Neither are voluntary).

I do think a lot of taboo sexual attractions are uh... bizarre, but not the monstrosities they're painted out to be. Incest, in particular - obviously the idea of getting jiggy with a relative grosses me out but given the huge variety of family upbringings and weird things that happen to relationships, I don't quite get why it's illegal for, essentially, two consenting adults (yes, emphasis on the consenting) to be together. I understand the genetic repercussions if there's procreation involved, but if it were, in effect, a childless relationship?

I do wonder how society attitudes will change in years to come now that a major alternative sexuality (the homos <3) has been given so much acceptance and equal legislation. I don't compare homosexuality with paedophilia in any other way than they're both involuntary sexual impulses, but I do think the hysteria with which everyone reacts to this subject is ridiculous and counter-productive. If anything, thrusting the words sick, criminal, psychopath at these people from the moment they're aware of their attractions just turns them onto the line of thought that goes "right, if I want to get my rocks off, I'm gonna have to break the law". Accepting you're already a criminal so you might as well, if you will. Therapy is clearly the way forward.

..I agree with you but I also think that it's a natural reaction as well ..and I also agree about therapy but I also think that therapy has now become an 'ideal' in that however much it's needed, it just isn't there for a huge majority of people...

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I don't see why so many people are getting caught up in semantics (who cares if it's an innate orientation or a perversion? Neither are voluntary).

I do think a lot of taboo sexual attractions are uh... bizarre, but not the monstrosities they're painted out to be. Incest, in particular - obviously the idea of getting jiggy with a relative grosses me out but given the huge variety of family upbringings and weird things that happen to relationships, I don't quite get why it's illegal for, essentially, two consenting adults (yes, emphasis on the consenting) to be together. I understand the genetic repercussions if there's procreation involved, but if it were, in effect, a childless relationship?

I do wonder how society attitudes will change in years to come now that a major alternative sexuality (the homos <3) has been given so much acceptance and equal legislation. I don't compare homosexuality with paedophilia in any other way than they're both involuntary sexual impulses, but I do think the hysteria with which everyone reacts to this subject is ridiculous and counter-productive. If anything, thrusting the words sick, criminal, psychopath at these people from the moment they're aware of their attractions just turns them onto the line of thought that goes "right, if I want to get my rocks off, I'm gonna have to break the law". Accepting you're already a criminal so you might as well, if you will. Therapy is clearly the way forward.

I don't think it's a semantic difference, I think it's a crucial one. If it is innate then it's essentially impossible to change and the only thing you can do is try and control it, whereas if it is a learned perversion then it has the potential to be 'unlearned', regardless of the fact you did not choose it in the first place

[Kizzy]

Rehab for offenders must have for years tried that, aversion therapy and whatever. If it was effective surely it would be offered as a preventative measure too?