[Crimson Dynamo]

WHITE POPPIES ARE FOR PEACE

The idea of decoupling Armistice Day, the red poppy and later Remembrance Day from their military culture dates back to 1926, just a few years after the British Legion was persuaded to try using the red poppy as a fundraising tool in Britain.

A member of the No More War Movement suggested that the British Legion should be asked to imprint 'No More War' in the centre of the red poppies instead of ‘Haig Fund’ and failing this pacifists should make their own flowers.

The details of any discussion with the British Legion are unknown but as the centre of the red poppy displayed the ‘Haig Fund’ imprint until 1994 it was clearly not successful. A few years later the idea was again discussed by the Co-operative Women's Guild. In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/whitepoppy/

[Kizzy]

I would wear both, but I've never seen a white poppy on sale anywhere.

[Josy]

TBF to Josh here, the white poppies are sold and worn as a symbol for peace.

[MTVN]

I understand the motives behind the white poppy tbh and used to quite like the idea (still sorta agree with the premise, I just don't think it's that necessary). In the same way that the Union Flag has become quite appropriated by nationalists, the poppy has imo become increasingly associated with a jingoistic brand of patriotism and been exploited for cynical political purposes instead of purely lamenting war and its losses.

I've gotten over my issues with the red poppy now though because I realise that even if the above is true it doesn't take away from the meaning and poignancy of the red poppy and also that it doesn't have to necessarily stand for one thing. It can be a very personal symbol that holds different connotations for different people, an act of remembrance doesn't need to be politicised and there doesn't need to be a distinction between pacifists and non pacifists, red and white.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

WHITE POPPIES ARE FOR PEACE

The idea of decoupling Armistice Day, the red poppy and later Remembrance Day from their military culture dates back to 1926, just a few years after the British Legion was persuaded to try using the red poppy as a fundraising tool in Britain.

A member of the No More War Movement suggested that the British Legion should be asked to imprint 'No More War' in the centre of the red poppies instead of ‘Haig Fund’ and failing this pacifists should make their own flowers.

The details of any discussion with the British Legion are unknown but as the centre of the red poppy displayed the ‘Haig Fund’ imprint until 1994 it was clearly not successful. A few years later the idea was again discussed by the Co-operative Women's Guild. In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/whitepoppy/

After the formation of the White Poppy in the thirties, how very fortunate for everyone here enjoying their freedom of speech and expression, that the "No More War" message wasn't adhered to. No one wants war, but sometimes you have to fight for a cause. Had there been 'No More War' we would probably be speaking German now. Well, not you, Trumpet, you'd probably have a smattering. And I wouldn't be here at all, and neither would any of my family.

No one wants war less than the people who have to fight them but sometimes it is necessary to take up arms. Luckily, there are people willing to do that, and sometimes give up their lives for our national freedom and I think that one day a year, it's not too much to ask to show them some respect and remembrance without someone wanting to hijack the message that is simply... We Will Remember Them.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Livia

After the formation of the White Poppy in the thirties, how very fortunate for everyone here enjoying their freedom of speech and expression, that the "No More War" message wasn't adhered to. No one wants war, but sometimes you have to fight for a cause. Had there been 'No More War' we would probably be speaking German now. Well, not you, Trumpet, you'd probably have a smattering. And I wouldn't be here at all, and neither would any of my family.

No one wants war less than the people who have to fight them but sometimes it is necessary to take up arms. Luckily, there are people willing to do that, and sometimes give up their lives for our national freedom and I think that one day a year, it's not too much to ask to show them some respect and remembrance without someone wanting to hijack the message that is simply... We Will Remember Them.

tbh, if World War One wasn't started then Hitler wouldn't have gone on to WW2. Germany wasn't responsible for WW1 however they were forced to take all responsibility which led to anger and the anti-semitism etc.

[Kyle]

Some people just want to stick the boot in at everything nowadays.

I am fine with a red poppy and I don't want any more wars either.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Livia

After the formation of the White Poppy in the thirties, how very fortunate for everyone here enjoying their freedom of speech and expression, that the "No More War" message wasn't adhered to. No one wants war, but sometimes you have to fight for a cause. Had there been 'No More War' we would probably be speaking German now. Well, not you, Trumpet, you'd probably have a smattering. And I wouldn't be here at all, and neither would any of my family.

No one wants war less than the people who have to fight them but sometimes it is necessary to take up arms. Luckily, there are people willing to do that, and sometimes give up their lives for our national freedom and I think that one day a year, it's not too much to ask to show them some respect and remembrance without someone wanting to hijack the message that is simply... We Will Remember Them.

preach, mother****ing preach...

Seriously, I swear people think all these wars are caused because some 'white guy' thinks YAY I THINK ITS TIME FOR A WAR!!!!!!!!! Yay lets kill people!!!!!111

The thing is, sometimes whether we go to war or not, people are killed in the most horrific ways possible. Sometimes it takes a war to stop these things from happening.

Its awful that we have to go to war... especially in this day and age where we've come so far. But when there are people who threaten to kill us in our very own countries, it's sometimes necessary.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

tbh, if World War One wasn't started then Hitler wouldn't have gone on to WW2. Germany wasn't responsible for WW1 however they were forced to take all responsibility which led to anger and the anti-semitism etc.

Is that right.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

tbh, if World War One wasn't started then Hitler wouldn't have gone on to WW2. Germany wasn't responsible for WW1 however they were forced to take all responsibility which led to anger and the anti-semitism etc.

Gavrilo Princip is responsible for the Holocaust?

hew new?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Gavrilo Princip is responsible for the Holocaust?

hew new?

It's a frickin' education on here sometimes, innit.

Hope you're having a splendid birthday. I'm coming round later to give you the bumps.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's a frickin' education on here sometimes, innit.

Hope you're having a splendid birthday. I'm coming round later to give you the bumps.

I found out after the last time you came that "no one" has to be tied face down to a bed to get the bumps, not even "proper ones" as you called it.

And I put the "you know what" in the bin anyway as the dog chewed trough the straps

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I understand the motives behind the white poppy tbh and used to quite like the idea (still sorta agree with the premise, I just don't think it's that necessary). In the same way that the Union Flag has become quite appropriated by nationalists, the poppy has imo become increasingly associated with a jingoistic brand of patriotism and been exploited for cynical political purposes instead of purely lamenting war and its losses.

I've gotten over my issues with the red poppy now though because I realise that even if the above is true it doesn't take away from the meaning and poignancy of the red poppy and also that it doesn't have to necessarily stand for one thing. It can be a very personal symbol that holds different connotations for different people, an act of remembrance doesn't need to be politicised and there doesn't need to be a distinction between pacifists and non pacifists, red and white.

[Tom4784]

Always buy one but I never wear them.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Josy

TBF to Josh here, the white poppies are sold and worn as a symbol for peace.

Yes Anti War

[Liam-]

I've never bought or worn a poppy before, but now that I know about the white ones, i think I'll get myself one of them.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

I've never bought or worn a poppy before, but now that I know about the white ones, i think I'll get myself one of them.

Good for you, Liam. And when you pin it on, remember that people died so that you have the freedom and the right to do that.

[Northern Monkey]

The poppy can only be a good thing as it raises money for our brave soldiers.I also agree with those that say we should'nt need charities to look after our soldiers,The state sends them to war a should look after them for the rest of their life when they come home.It's also good that we remember what our grand parents did for us to have the life that we have now,I'm pretty certain i would'nt look good in Lederhosen.The white poppy just seems like some ass holes wanting to hijack,insult and be different to the red poppy tbh.Just take it for what it is and appreciate what those brave soldiers did for us.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

The poppy can only be a good thing as it raises money for our brave soldiers.I also agree with those that say we should'nt need charities to look after our soldiers,The state sends them to war a should look after them for the rest of their life when they come home.It's also good that we remember what our grand parents did for us to have the life that we have now,I'm pretty certain i would'nt look good in Lederhosen.The white poppy just seems like some ass holes wanting to hijack,insult and be different to the red poppy tbh.

You should try the lederhosen, it could be a good look for you. We'll need pics, of course...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

You should try the lederhosen, it could be a good look for you. We'll need pics, of course...

Lol,I don't wanna get you all excited,I'd have some jealous husbands after me

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Good for you, Liam. And when you pin it on, remember that people died so that you have the freedom and the right to do that.

Yes Liv -- Everyone should remember. Poppies are not about supporting any war, they are about honoring and respecting those poor soldiers who lost their lives fighting in wars on our behalf.

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army

In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

And the equally as sad and poignant:

"When you go home, tell them of us and say: 'For your tomorrow we gave our today'"

From the Kohima Epitaph for those who lost their young lives fighting in the Burma campaign.

Lest We Forget.

[Livia]

Paul, go on, we'll all try to control ourselves...

Kirk, beautiful, if something so sad, so poignant, can be beautiful. You know what I mean.

[AnnieK]

I always buy one....and I shall be going to the cenotaph this year as it is the first Remembrance Day my grandfather, who fought and was injured in WW2 is not here to go himself

[Livia]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I always buy one....and I shall be going to the cenotaph this year as it is the first Remembrance Day my grandfather, who fought and was injured in WW2 is not here to go himself

That's very special that you'll be there representing your Grandfather.

[Marc]

I have a nice metal one. Will wear it