[Kyle]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he is doing some local garage work in America

too many flies in Africa

If I was a Christian I'd be a little miffed tbh. I've done my time on this fallen earth so why not let me die from the accident and join the Heavenly Father in eternal paradise?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Kyle

If I was a Christian I'd be a little miffed tbh. I've done my time on this fallen earth so why not let me die from the accident and join the Heavenly Father in eternal paradise?

Ah nevermind it says he's a pastor so I already know what the answer will be.

"Still to do god's work/shepherding the flock/unfinished business" or something along those lines.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Im glad this man is doing well, but some of his story doesn't sound accurate. For example, if his spleen was crushed and destroyed, then doctors would surgically remove it, not leave it in his body. That is standard medical procedure. My guess is that his spleen, pancreas, and other vital organs were displaced or shifted when the axel crushed him. There are women who wear extreme corsets which constrict their midline to a tiny 3 inch waist. They are able to wear these corsets because they shift their major organs above or below the narrow part and that is most likely what occurred with this man's spleen and other major organs, except his intestines were not as lucky. Also, Bruce states that 5 of his major arteries where severed and nobody except him has survived an injury like this, however, I've read about a few cases like this. Sometimes arteries will contract when severed and constrict enough that a person doesn't bleed to death. For example, a man in China (Peng Shuilin) was run over by a truck and was literally torn in two, where his bottom half was separated from his top half and dragged a distance. His major arteries were severed, but Peng Shuilin is not a Christian, so he did NOT ask God and all his angels for help, yet he also miraculously survived. Just saying.


just one post on the youtube page

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Im glad this man is doing well, but some of his story doesn't sound accurate. For example, if his spleen was crushed and destroyed, then doctors would surgically remove it, not leave it in his body. That is standard medical procedure. My guess is that his spleen, pancreas, and other vital organs were displaced or shifted when the axel crushed him. There are women who wear extreme corsets which constrict their midline to a tiny 3 inch waist. They are able to wear these corsets because they shift their major organs above or below the narrow part and that is most likely what occurred with this man's spleen and other major organs, except his intestines were not as lucky. Also, Bruce states that 5 of his major arteries where severed and nobody except him has survived an injury like this, however, I've read about a few cases like this. Sometimes arteries will contract when severed and constrict enough that a person doesn't bleed to death. For example, a man in China (Peng Shuilin) was run over by a truck and was literally torn in two, where his bottom half was separated from his top half and dragged a distance. His major arteries were severed, but Peng Shuilin is not a Christian, so he did NOT ask God and all his angels for help, yet he also miraculously survived. Just saying.


just one post on the youtube page

Thank you LT - I will look into this. THIS is civil discussion. I do not have all the answers but I am sure that science doesn't either.

I am the very first to dismiss 'relics'/'Statues crying blood' etc, but there still remains hundreds of inexplicable cases once the more obvious fakery has been pruned away, and discussions - where other information comes to light - is the only way to help get to the bottom of such 'mysteries'.

I will now research the points you have made regarding his spleen etc and it may explain things - or it may not. I have an open mind.

[JoshBB]

Sorry but just because something didn't follow the regular pattern doesn't mean it's supernatural and God did it.

I'm open-minded, but come on..

[kirklancaster]

With a few notable exceptions, this thread has already gone the very predictable way I thought it would.

I did not claim that God intervened, or that Angels attended him, thus why I asked 'Can Faith Move Mountains'? and if you read my post without any predetermination to sneer or scoff, I actually asked; "Watch and read, then tell me YOUR thoughts - Faith or Something 'Supernatural'? - meaning did his FAITH alone (because he WAS a spritual person) give him the will to live, or was he correct and something 'supernatural' had taken place.

So it is not MY 'crackpot' story LT - it happened, it is Van Natta's story, and the Doctors and Surgeons all attest that he should - by all scientific criteria - be dead.

I was rather hoping for a cordial, intelligent discussion, but I should have known better.

Scoff and mock all you like, but this is just one of hundreds of genuine stories where 'Science' well and truly does NOT have the answers, and it is NOT unique.

On Sunday the 4th of October at 10pm on the CI HD channel is an episode of the excellent 'I Escaped My Killer' documentary series and I advise anyone with an open mind to watch it, because it is about a young, rational, very courageous girl - Jennifer Asbenson - who is kidnapped by a demented serial killer and escapes after being raped, brutalised and almost killed. She is pivotal in convicting the killer, but it is her testimony of just how she 'broke free' of her bonds in the locked boot of his car when she was weak and injured, which asks questions.

Desperate, she did the one thing that could bring some comfort.

"And that was pray. And I just started crying, saying, "God, if there's a God and you know that I'm in this trunk right now and you know that I'm about to be cut up into many pieces, please take my life or let me get away."

She thinks that what happened next was - pure and simple - divine intervention.

"I just prayed. and the duct tape just.... Crackled, I mean cracled and I just suddenly got hysterical strength… and I just started hearing all the twine busting behind my back… And I just busted it off. It was a miracle…I mean crackled and my hands were free."

'She was hysterical'/'she dreamt it' etc etc - Yes, OK, we've danced this dance before on the 'Stephanie Slater' thread when she is adamant a 'vision of Jesus' saved her, but it is not MY testimony, and I have no answers, I only know that all these hundreds and hundreds of sane ordinary people's testimony cannot be dismissed because it does not 'dovetail' into the narrow parameters of what we call 'Science'.

I remember news footage of a skinny 10 stone man lifting a truck which trapped his wife and that in itself DEFIES science, and not a 'spiritual' or 'religious' notion in sight.

Sorry.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

With a few notable exceptions, this thread has already gone the very predictable way I thought it would.

I did not claim that God intervened, or that Angels attended him, thus why I asked 'Can Faith Move Mountains'? and if you read my post without any predetermination to sneer or scoff, I actually asked; "Watch and read, then tell me YOUR thoughts - Faith or Something 'Supernatural'? - meaning did his FAITH alone (because he WAS a spritual person) give him the will to live, or was he correct and something 'supernatural' had taken place.

So it is not MY 'crackpot' story LT - it happened, it is Van Natta's story, and the Doctors and Surgeons all attest that he should - by all scientific criteria - be dead.

I was rather hoping for a cordial, intelligent discussion, but I should have known better.

Scoff and mock all you like, but this is just one of hundreds of genuine stories where 'Science' well and truly does NOT have the answers, and it is NOT unique.

On Sunday the 4th of October at 10pm on the CI HD channel is an episode of the excellent 'I Escaped My Killer' documentary series and I advise anyone with an open mind to watch it, because it is about a young, rational, very courageous girl - Jennifer Asbenson - who is kidnapped by a demented serial killer and escapes after being raped, brutalised and almost killed. She is pivotal in convicting the killer, but it is her testimony of just how she 'broke free' of her bonds in the locked boot of his car when she was weak and injured, which asks questions.

Desperate, she did the one thing that could bring some comfort.

"And that was pray. And I just started crying, saying, "God, if there's a God and you know that I'm in this trunk right now and you know that I'm about to be cut up into many pieces, please take my life or let me get away."

She thinks that what happened next was - pure and simple - divine intervention.

"I just prayed. and the duct tape just.... Crackled, I mean cracled and I just suddenly got hysterical strength… and I just started hearing all the twine busting behind my back… And I just busted it off. It was a miracle…I mean crackled and my hands were free."

'She was hysterical'/'she dreamt it' etc etc - Yes, OK, we've danced this dance before on the 'Stephanie Slater' thread when she is adamant a 'vision of Jesus' saved her, but it is not MY testimony, and I have no answers, I only know that all these hundreds and hundreds of sane ordinary people's testimony cannot be dismissed because it does not 'dovetail' into the narrow parameters of what we call 'Science'.

I remember news footage of a skinny 10 stone man lifting a truck which trapped his wife and that in itself DEFIES science, and not a 'spiritual' or 'religious' notion in sight.

Sorry.

if you want a discussion then address all the perfectly logical arguments against this anecdotal (at best) story in the thread

[Ashley.]

No, but Usher can