[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.

I believe they did listen and act accordingly. But I strongly agree with your point that George Osborne has no soul. That's very easy to accept.

Nice to see you Vicky!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I believe they did listen and act accordingly. But I strongly agree with your point that George Osborne has no soul. That's very easy to accept.

Nice to see you Vicky!

They, I imagine would be Cameron. For all his faults, he does seem to have some compassion at times. Also hes not stupid, this would have been an absolute vote killer for them, even if they do mainly rely on the grey vote. I can just imagine the tantrums Osbourne would have had over all of this..

I am really warming to Cameron recently strangely enough. I was thinking the other day, if you take out what seems like contempt for the lower paid among us..he is exactly the right person to be in charge right now. I voted Labour (though was never Millibands greatest fan) and honestly, I feel MUCH safer right now than I can imagine feeling if this mess was down to Ed to sort out. I agree with Corbyn on a lot of things, but I would never vpte for him with the worold how it is right now. His world peace vision is nice and all, but not whats needed when we are..at war.

Went off on one a bit there, but not deleting

Thanks, nice to be back

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.

But he needs one,
to be PM in 2020

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

But he needs one,
to be PM in 2020

Osbourne for PM? No ****ing chance. Even the Tory voters I know (few and far between up north though) cannot stand Osbourne

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Osbourne for PM? No ****ing chance. Even the Tory voters I know (few and far between up north though) cannot stand Osbourne

Noooo... that'd be as bad as Labour electing Corbyn as their leader. Well, almost as bad.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Noooo... that'd be as bad as Labour electing Corbyn as their leader. Well, almost as bad.

Nowhere NEAR as bad - despite Osborne being a knob.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Osbourne for PM? No ****ing chance. Even the Tory voters I know (few and far between up north though) cannot stand Osbourne

Vicky with the strong language.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.

He most certainly didn't listen Vicky you are spot on.
He had a rebuff from the Lords and he was also likely told some of his own MPs after they had been bombarded by their constituents against the tax credit cuts, that they now could not support the cuts.
Some of the more decent Conservative MPs listened but not Osborne himself.

With even with his magically found 27 billion, and things supposedly looking better,(which in reality it is not),had this bill sailed through the House of Lords, he would be on the way to implementing it in full, never even slightly considering looking at it again.
The man is rotten through and through and not to be believed or trusted at all,in my view.

[arista]

Students who took out a loan
in 2012 and who at a level of paying back £100 a year
Now will have to pay back £300.

He has changed the Contract.

[DemolitionRed]

I thought McDonnell's Mao quote was genius!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I thought McDonnell's Mao quote was genius!

Me too! Some people just have no concept of satire

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Me too! Some people just have no concept of satire

Rubbish! Everyone knows that those in the bigger chairs are sat higher.

[MTVN]

IMO it was public opinion in general which forced the u-turn. Don't think the Lords can be given full credit because he responded to the Lords vote furiously going on about how they had no right to overrule a democratic chamber's decision and saying he was going to press on anyway. Amongst the press I think the Sun had the biggest influence: when they are condemning a Tory government then you know its serious. There was a lot of dissent amongst his own party as well which helped.

[JoshBB]

As conservative budgets in the last 5 years have gone, this one does not strike me as bad as the others. I'm glad that they are funding areas that need it (mental health & houses, even if they still need more it's a start). It's just the £12bn welfare cuts I really don't like.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

As conservative budgets in the last 5 years have gone, this one does not strike me as bad as the others. I'm glad that they are funding areas that need it (mental health & houses, even if they still need more it's a start). It's just the £12bn welfare cuts I really don't like.

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

Very annoying. Especially when the pension is rising and everything else is being cut xD Its just misleading to lump them together as welfare

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Very annoying. Especially when the pension is rising and everything else is being cut xD Its just misleading to lump them together as welfare

My point exactly Vicky, thank you.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Very annoying. Especially when the pension is rising and everything else is being cut xD Its just misleading to lump them together as welfare

Every working person in this country is about to be sent a run down of where our tax goes. In this document, state pension doesn't show up under welfare but is listed separately.

A taxable wage will pay 23% towards welfare and a further 15% into the state pension pot Vicky and that isn't 15% of the 23%.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

What an excellent point Joey. I'm embarrassed to think that I just did not ever stop and think and realise this. You are correct - No Way should State Pensions be 'lumped in' to these figures as a devious 'bolster'.

I guess all Governments have deceitfully used this practice, but it does not make it right.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

Just before the next GE, they'll split them into two categories and then make a graph of benefits payments and say "look!! Look everyone! We halved the benefits bill! Vote for us!"

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Just before the next GE, they'll split them into two categories and then make a graph of benefits payments and say "look!! Look everyone! We halved the benefits bill! Vote for us!"

And some will fall for it....again.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And some will fall for it....again.

I agree they will, some who believe all the obnoxious tripe this govt says will be hailing it as a brilliant outcome too.

Brilliant deduction again Toy Soldier too from you.

Thanks to Kirk too for his response, this has irritated me for ages now because with the State pension figures removed there would be a vastly reduced level of real social security welfare spending costs to present.

[MTVN]

Don't worry Mr McDonnell, you will always have Diane behind you

Youtube video

[smudgie]

Until the day They stop paying pensioners who haven't put anything into the pot a state pension then it is fair enough to call it a benefit.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Until the day They stop paying pensioners who haven't put anything into the pot a state pension then it is fair enough to call it a benefit.

I don't agree and I think you may be very surprised how small an effect that would have with respect anyway.
Multi millionaires get the State pension and rightly, welfare spending costs should only be for in the main the means tested benefit system, not the automatic rights for all.

You actually think it is right that someone who is a millionaire and gets the State pension should be included in social security spending welfare statistics.
I certainly don't,never ever,under any govt.

Also as Vicky says the State pension is rising whereas all other benefits are near frozen or even being cut,that means in effect because the State pension is included in social security welfare figures, the cost appear to rise but not because of the other benefits being paid, only from the State pension rises in the greater part.