[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by ~HO~HO~HO~

This still affects the innocent syrian people in a bad way, they need oil to heat their homes and run vehicles in their day to day lives, so imo it's a very bad idea, as well as further provoking ISIS to retaliate with a revenge attack it's going to cause more resentment towards us from syrian people escalating the chance of creating more extremists in the future.

I agree, air strikes are a shortsighted solution. We might take out an asset or two but we give IS ammunition to recruit the disilusioned victims to their cause.

Originally Posted by Livia

When the allies bombed Dresden in WW2, Jewish slaves cheered the allied bombers while knowing they could be killed at any moment. Military actions are much more precise now, but in any case I think Syrian people who are currently living with the threat of IS will welcome the fact that the world is trying to rid them of the scum that is Islamic State.

I think that's a very idealisitic thought process.

I imagine that for the average Syrian citizen it'll feel like being stuck inbetween a rock and a hard place. On one side you have the brutal regime of IS and on the other side you have a bunch of people who fancy themselves saviors bombing the hell out of you. I imagine they see the conflict between us and IS in a similar way that we look at the IS-Assad conflict, it's a battle of two evils of which no one will win, least of all the civilians.

Either way the Syrian citizens are going to be killed so I doubt they prefer one reaper any more than the other.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by ~HO~HO~HO~

This still affects the innocent syrian people in a bad way, they need oil to heat their homes and run vehicles in their day to day lives, so imo it's a very bad idea, as well as further provoking ISIS to retaliate with a revenge attack it's going to cause more resentment towards us from syrian people escalating the chance of creating more extremists in the future.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I agree, air strikes are a shortsighted solution. We might take out an asset or two but we give IS ammunition to recruit the disilusioned victims to their cause.

But this sounds to me like your saying that we shouldn't go ahead with the bombings because Syrian civilians might, at some point join ISIS as a result. But whilst it may be true that some extremists do come out of situations like this, I think on the whole, they're normal people like us at the end of the day who want an end to the regime. And I don't see what the alternative is. A lot of the 'against' arguments seem to be based on what may happen in the future as a result of our involvement but doing nothing at all and leaving ISIS to run as they currently are will leave ordinary Syrian people without a future imo - and at the very least, will prolong their current suffering

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by ~HO~HO~HO~

This still affects the innocent syrian people in a bad way, they need oil to heat their homes and run vehicles in their day to day lives, so imo it's a very bad idea, as well as further provoking ISIS to retaliate with a revenge attack it's going to cause more resentment towards us from syrian people escalating the chance of creating more extremists in the future.

That is a very valid point but then i think one has to weigh up the options.Which is the worst option of the two.
Should we just do nothing and let IS continue making money from stolen oil and grow their Islamic State even more because the Syrian people will be affected?

Or stop the illegal trade and stop the money getting into terrorist hands and taking over even more land and using more sophosticated weaponary purchased with their loot.

I would argue that the Syrian people are already being affected by this.They are being tortured,beheaded,kidnapped etc and having their oil supply controlled by terrorists who are more than likely ripping them off.
I think doing nothing is the worst thing we can do.

We are already a target from IS now.Not joining the fight won't change that imo.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by ~HO~HO~HO~

This still affects the innocent syrian people in a bad way, they need oil to heat their homes and run vehicles in their day to day lives, so imo it's a very bad idea, as well as further provoking ISIS to retaliate with a revenge attack it's going to cause more resentment towards us from syrian people escalating the chance of creating more extremists in the future.

Indeed and a really good post again from you.

I do fear we could well be making things worse in the long run and also heading for the same errors we have made before too as to being in the Middle east.
Each action seems to raise more and more questions and no one has any certainty as to answers no matter what they may say on this issue.

We are now on a road we hope leads to a better place but one filled with uncertainties and problems,going in as if we have the idea whatever we do will in the end help things,could well see things develop into even more chaos,especially after we claim to be,if we ever can claim,to be finished there.

[arista]

But Dezzy
Labour back this as well

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

But Dezzy
Labour back this as well

They're morons for doing so.

Like Kizzy said, there are at least four other countries that are better equipped to deal with the situation already working on it. We can offer nothing new that can't be done by France, Russia, The US or China.

We're pissing money up the wall for no good reason. We are not needed at this point in time.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They're morons for doing so.

Like Kizzy said, there are at least four other countries that are better equipped to deal with the situation already working on it. We can offer nothing new that can't be done by France, Russia, The US or China.

We're pissing money up the wall for no good reason. We are not needed at this point in time.

I think the security services, the Ministry of Defence, the government and all our allies beg to differ.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think the security services, the Ministry of Defence, the government and all our allies beg to differ.

What can we do that isn't already being done by the other countries that are already on it?

I see nobody has bothered with my point about budgets either, We only just barely saved tax credits, the NHS is in danger and public services are being slashed across the board. Why are we getting involved in a war that we aren't needed when we've had to fight to keep basic services and benefits alive?

It's all about ego and grandstanding and nothing more.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What can we do that isn't already being done by the other countries that are already on it?

I see nobody has bothered with my point about budgets either, We only just barely saved tax credits, the NHS is in danger and public services are being slashed across the board. Why are we getting involved in a war that we aren't needed when we've had to fight to keep basic services and benefits alive?

It's all about ego and grandstanding and nothing more.

I don't know what we can do that isn't already being done because I am not a strategist, and neither are you.

Whose ego are you talking about? Who is grandstanding? Sending young men to war has got to be one of the most serious, scary things ever. I see no grandstanding AT ALL.

We are never going to agree on this. I still adore you though x

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What can we do that isn't already being done by the other countries that are already on it?

I see nobody has bothered with my point about budgets either, We only just barely saved tax credits, the NHS is in danger and public services are being slashed across the board. Why are we getting involved in a war that we aren't needed when we've had to fight to keep basic services and benefits alive?

It's all about ego and grandstanding and nothing more.

Don't be silly Dezzy, I know that several other countries including three superpowers are already tackling ISIS but, evidently, they aren't making any progress. It's time for the real muscle to step in and sort all of this out. The mother trucking UK goddamnit!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What can we do that isn't already being done by the other countries that are already on it?

I see nobody has bothered with my point about budgets either, We only just barely saved tax credits, the NHS is in danger and public services are being slashed across the board. Why are we getting involved in a war that we aren't needed when we've had to fight to keep basic services and benefits alive?

It's all about ego and grandstanding and nothing more.

I agree, we've put a price on our heads and one attack could effectively cripple our existing wafer thin infrastructure.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think the security services, the Ministry of Defence, the government and all our allies beg to differ.

So what's the plan... that was the big hold up initially that they had no argument for intervention, other than cameron striding about shouting 'terrorist sympathiser' at anyone who questioned his proposal.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

So what's the plan... that was the big hold up initially that they had no argument for intervention, other than cameron striding about shouting 'terrorist sympathiser' at anyone who questioned his proposal.

I don't know the plan. And furthermore, even if I did I wouldn't be writing it on a Big Brother forum. We're not supposed to know the plan or what would be the point?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They're morons for doing so.

Like Kizzy said, there are at least four other countries that are better equipped to deal with the situation already working on it. We can offer nothing new that can't be done by France, Russia, The US or China.

We're pissing money up the wall for no good reason. We are not needed at this point in time.

The UK has technology far superior in certain areas to other coalition partners. Each coalition partner offers different things. Thats why coalitions work.

So it is completely incorrect to suggest we are not needed and that money is being pissed away.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

The UK has technology far superior in certain areas to other coalition partners. Each coalition partner offers different things. Thats why coalitions work.

So it is completely incorrect to suggest we are not needed and that money is being pissed away.

Exactly, we have all of the best toys, our uncle even got us some of the bestest ones that aren't even out in the shops yet coz he works at the factory! We are sooo cool and our dad could EASILY beat up ISIS's dad because our dad does karate and is actually a black belt actually so watch it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

Don't be silly Dezzy, I know that several other countries including three superpowers are already tackling ISIS but, evidently, they aren't making any progress. It's time for the real muscle to step in and sort all of this out. The mother trucking UK goddamnit!

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

Exactly, we have all of the best toys, our uncle even got us some of the bestest ones that aren't even out in the shops yet coz he works at the factory! We are sooo cool and our dad could EASILY beat up ISIS's dad because our dad does karate and is actually a black belt actually so watch it.

Don't be ridiculous TS. The isn't Chat and Games.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

The UK has technology far superior in certain areas to other coalition partners. Each coalition partner offers different things. Thats why coalitions work.

So it is completely incorrect to suggest we are not needed and that money is being pissed away.

[Crimson Dynamo]

this is a continuation of the bombing, what has changed is that we have now moved into Syria

[Kizzy]

You know it smacks of some sort of Napoleon complex ironically...
There's Russia, the US, China, France and god knows who else ( who incidentally have just cause) there and we charge in as if we can save the day? :/

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

You know it smacks of some sort of Napoleon complex ironically...
There's Russia, the US, China, France and god knows who else ( who incidentally have just cause) there and we charge in as if we can save the day? :/

You mean, we joined the coalition of allies. All 60 of them. A democratic vote was taken, I'm sure souls were searched. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean for a minute that the decision was taken lightly or cavalierly.

[bots]

We hit ISIS capability to earn income. Please tell me how that was either inappropriate or unplanned.

It was exactly the type of resources that were highlighted that would be targeted.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't believe you actually think that, Drew. All the politicians who voted, all the military top brass putting our servicemen in harms way, the pilots themselves... only doing it because they are desperate to get in on the act? Bombing the oilfields so that funding to IS is cut off sounds like a plan to me.

We are just one of a coalition of nations. No one wants to go war, least of all those who will be fighting it on our behalf.

Originally Posted by Joseph the Carpenter

this is a continuation of the bombing, what has changed is that we have now moved into Syria

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

We hit ISIS capability to earn income. Please tell me how that was either inappropriate or unplanned.

It was exactly the type of resources that were highlighted that would be targeted.

Agree with all of this. UK has been on high terror alert for months this doesn't change anything, moving from bombing Iraq to Syria isn't such a huge step

[Northern Monkey]

This strike will have been planned well before the vote happened.The RAF were just waiting for the politicians to get their act together so they could get in the fight and start kicking some terrorist asses.I'm sure our generals know exactly what their plans are.

[Northern Monkey]

You think we are just going to send millions of pounds of fully armed fighter/bomber up there without any planning before hand??

Seriously?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You think we are just going to send millions of pounds of fully armed fighter/bomber up there without any planning before hand??

Seriously?

No, there's plans in place but they aren't going to be any more effective than what's already being done.

Our involvement changes nothing and it only hurts us in the long run.