[Livia]

If the girl was in my family I wouldn't want him in prison for long. I'd want him out where I could get to him. And his dickhead father too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the problem is that rape is a catch-all word that spans this case and forced abduction rape at point to death with a knife over many hours

for example

[Livia]

Rape means being penetrated by a penis against your will. Other charges are add ons.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

Rape means being penetrated by a penis against your will. Other charges are add ons.

what about when you wake up and decide that whilst you did last night you dont this morning?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what about when you wake up and decide that whilst you did last night you dont this morning?

Clearly that didn't happen in this case though........

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Clearly that didn't happen in this case though........

no but am i right in saying that the girl got so paralytic she passed out outside?


(not that i think this is an invite etc)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no but am i right in saying that the girl got so paralytic she passed out outside?


(not that i think this is an invite etc)

What are you saying then? Yes she got far too drunk, that doesn't mean the guy didn't commit a violent and predatory crime against her

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what about when you wake up and decide that whilst you did last night you dont this morning?

Then it's a much more difficult case to prove beyond reasonable doubt. That's not what happened here though. Is it.

[Tom4784]

What a ridiculous sentence, the judge should definitely be investigated since six months for rape is completely insane.

[Tom4784]

It's quite simple, if you don't have consent or the person is incapable of giving consent then it's a crime. It's not her fault for having a drink, it's his fault for choosing to take advantage and rape her.

The lesson here is simple, don't rape people.

[Shaun]

If anything the supposed grey area of consent under the influence of alcohol should be a warning against anyone trying to take advantage of drunk girls/men, not an excuse for what turned out to be rape to have just been "well I didn't know she didn't want it!"

[Livia]

Women have to be more responsible about drinking and putting themselves in harms way. That said, you're not allowed to beat or murder someone when they're drunk so I don't see why it should be okay to rape them.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Livia

That said, you're not allowed to beat or murder someone when they're drunk

you haven't met Lucas

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shaun

you haven't met Lucas

Dark. He sounds like my kind of guy...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I made my (now deleted and infracted) Mccann comment not to troll but to make a comparison

2 situations that needed a perp for them to go very wrong

Both situations that were dangerous

1. leaving small children unattended and out of earshot
2. getting so drunk you pas out outside


Bur both situations that 9999/10000 or more happen all over the world and nowt happens

But introduce a perp and it goes very wrong

Both cases do not excuse the perp or the fact the danger was created

I see a parallel and i think its valid, hence why I made it, and not to troll..

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I made my (now deleted and infracted) Mccann comment not to troll but to make a comparison

2 situations that needed a perp for them to go very wrong

Both situations that were dangerous

1. leaving small children unattended and out of earshot
2. getting so drunk you pas out outside


Bur both situations that 9999/10000 or more happen all over the world and nowt happens

But introduce a perp and it goes very wrong

Both cases do not excuse the perp or the fact the danger was created

I see a parallel and i think its valid, hence why I made it, and not to troll..

Neglecting your children is, in itself against the law though............getting drunk is not, that's the huge difference

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Neglecting your children is, in itself against the law though............getting drunk is not, that's the huge difference

what the maccans did was not breaking the law or neglect in their eyes, that is just a matter of opinion

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what the maccans did was not breaking the law or neglect in their eyes, that is just a matter of opinion

They actually were, in fact the Portuguese police have said that they would have been arrested for neglect had they been Portuguese, the only reason they weren't is because they thought it was normal practice in Britain to leave your babies alone.which I'm sure is not the case for any decent parent. Anyway how you can compare abandoning your babies to someone getting too drunk is bizarre imo

[Livia]

While I fully back Niamh on this... I also believe some women put themselves into vulnerable positions by allowing themselves to get so drunk they can't defend themselves. You have to take responsibility for your own safety. That doesn't mean it's okay to rape a drunk woman, it means that there are men out there who would take advantage of you and you need to guard against it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

While I fully back Niamh on this... I also believe some women put themselves into vulnerable positions by allowing themselves to get so drunk they can't defend themselves. You have to take responsibility for your own safety. That doesn't mean it's okay to rape a drunk woman, it means that there are men out there who would take advantage of you and you need to guard against it.

Absolutely but the point you made earlier is very relevant too, men drinking too much also can put themselves into vulnerable positions and may end up robbed or beaten up or even raped too but you rarely here anyone trying to apportion any of the blame on victims in those cases

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Absolutely but the point you made earlier is very relevant too, men drinking too much also can put themselves into vulnerable positions and may end up robbed or beaten up or even raped too but you rarely here anyone trying to apportion any of the blame on victims in those cases

Great point, just women I guess that are accused of making life easy for abusers :sigh:

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Livia

While I fully back Niamh on this... I also believe some women put themselves into vulnerable positions by allowing themselves to get so drunk they can't defend themselves. You have to take responsibility for your own safety. That doesn't mean it's okay to rape a drunk woman, it means that there are men out there who would take advantage of you and you need to guard against it.

Totally agree, as per

[Niamh.]

and lets not turn this thread into another McCann one, we already have a few of those floating around and we always end up in circles

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

and lets not turn this thread into another McCann one, we already have a few of those floating around and we always end up in circles

So true Niamh - those old twin Tibb pillars of Deja Vu and Futility.

[Livia]

Women generally are more vulnerable to attack than men, the statistics show that. And while men are robbed and raped, it's usually women and in a lot of cases, had the woman taken more care of her own personal safety, ie, not been drunk and incapable, it might have turned out differently. Rape is a dreadful, disgusting crime and there are some horrible people in the world... so look after yourself and if you MUST get paralytic, make sure you're with some trustworthy mates.