[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well there at least two cases on the news that might or might not be vile prejudices as they haven't actually mentioned any evidence they were race related apart from the victim being polish. Unfortunately crime happens every day and it isn't always racially motivated no matter where the people originate from or indeed anything to with the EU. Stephan Lawrence's murder was a vile prejudice for instance and deserves justice.

If you are English hating over the EU referendum, don't forget to include the Welsh, and the 39% of Scots who voted to leave plus the NIs who voted same. Or it sounds like you are just picking on one race. Which makes you guilty of the very thing that is upsetting you.

Not every person who voted leave are carrying out these vile attacks and verbal assaults on people who have been here for decades, even people they have worked with for years too.
I said a minority if your read the post properly.

Please do not patronise me, I have every right to feel pride or shame in my Country,whatever may be the case, that is actually for me to decide how I feel.

Furthermore, keep telling yourself there are a tiny number of cases, these cases are things our media do not want people to hear.

I actually work as a Solicitor and I know the things I have heard about and also have even worked on as to helping prepare cases for Court.
Many are currently in waiting to be heard in Crown Court too.

You can also choose to ignore if you wish,the fact that the Police have even said there is a substantial increase in reported hate and xenophobic/racist crime since the referendum.

These are the things Kizzy clearly has come across and then myself more from the work I do.
Not all is rosy or at present even nice in the English garden at present,and it is in England where the bulk of such hate incidents are on the increase more than anywhere else and that should be a concern for everyone in England, no matter how they voted.
Oh and it was 38% of Scots who voted to leave,not 39%, also English is not a race.
It is one Country of the UK, nothing else and I do not hate the English,I am English.
I again state I am against and ashamed of the 'minority' as I stated, of those who are 'English' who have crawled out the woodwork as to this referendum with their racist, xenophobic and hate related prejudices.
In whatever form those prejudices are.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well there at least two cases on the news that might or might not be vile prejudices as they haven't actually mentioned any evidence they were race related apart from the victim being polish. Unfortunately crime happens every day and it isn't always racially motivated no matter where the people originate from or indeed anything to with the EU. Stephan Lawrence's murder was a vile prejudice for instance and deserves justice.

If you are English hating over the EU referendum, don't forget to include the Welsh, and the 39% of Scots who voted to leave plus the NIs who voted same. Or it sounds like you are just picking on one race. Which makes you guilty of the very thing that is upsetting you.

I agree with all that...

I'm very tired of the claims that England is a racist country. Google racist attacks in any country in Europe and you'll find plenty. The claims are a sur by people with a different agenda. There was recently a Romanian shop in Norwich firebombed and some people were wringing their hands saying how awful thse racist attacks are. Turned out it was another Romanian gang who firebombed it.

The rise of NeoNazism in Germany is scary. I'd be more worried about that, to be honest.

[Niamh.]

I wonder where we'd stand in all of this, Ireland is supposed to be a neutral country

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not every person who voted leave are carrying out these vile attacks and verbal assaults on people who have been here for decades, even people they have worked with for years too.
I said a minority if your read the post properly.

Please do not patronise me, I have every right to feel pride or shame in my Country,whatever may be the case, that is actually for me to decide how I feel.

Furthermore, keep telling yourself there are a tiny number of cases, these cases are things our media do not want people to hear.

I actually work as a Solicitor and I know the things I have heard about and also have even worked on as to helping prepare cases for Court.
Many are currently in waiting to be heard in Crown Court too.

You can also choose to ignore if you wish,the fact that the Police have even said there is a substantial increase in reported hate and xenophobic/racist crime since the referendum.

These are the things Kizzy clearly has come across and then myself more from the work I do.
Not all is rosy or at present even nice in the English garden at present,and it is in England where the bulk of such hate incidents are on the increase more than anywhere else and that should be a concern for everyone in England, no matter how they voted.
Oh and it was 38% of Scots who voted to leave,not 39%, also English is not a race.
It is one Country of the UK, nothing else and I do not hate the English,I am English.
I again state I am against and ashamed of the 'minority' as I stated, of those who are 'English' who have crawled out the woodwork as to this referendum with their racist, xenophobic and hate related prejudices.
In whatever form those prejudices are.

You have no way of knowing if the people carrying out the assaults even voted in the referendum at all!

You say it's in England the bulk of these crimes are reported, how can you know that for sure? Do you have access to the details or statistics of those kinds of crimes reported in the other countries of the union?

Since the referendum there has actually an effort to urge people to report hate, so it's very hard to say if the rise in reports is a rise in the crime, or a rise in the reporting of the crime and a rise in awareness.

We should always be concerned about any hate crime but trying to make it an issue of Brexit is probably fairly naive. There are always people in every society with those views.

Do I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Yes I hope so.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I wonder where we'd stand in all of this, Ireland is supposed to be a neutral country

You would probably hire Dad's Army

[kirklancaster]

I will wager EVERYTHING I own - EVERYTHING which I have worked ALL my life for - that the number of crimes of ALL types perpetrated BY migrants, FAR outnumber ANY crimes perpetrated AGAINST them by indigenous BRITISH people.

I am personally fecking sick and tired of the same old cliched, hackneyed, ANTI-BRITISH propaganda incessantly plastered all over this forum from the same quarters - which is one of the main reasons why I do not post much on here any more.

It is so tedious and so predictable.

Just my personal opinion of some of the VIEWS expressed on here. I am NOT personally ATTACKING anyone just criticising some of the views.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

You would probably hire Dad's Army

We do have an Army but they're like, peace keepers or some s**t

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You have no way of knowing if the people carrying out the assaults even voted in the referendum at all!

You say it's in England the bulk of these crimes are reported, how can you know that for sure? Do you have access to the details or statistics of those kinds of crimes reported in the other countries of the union?

Since the referendum there has actually an effort to urge people to report hate, so it's very hard to say if the rise in reports is a rise in the crime, or a rise in the reporting of the crime and a rise in awareness.

We should always be concerned about any hate crime but trying to make it an issue of Brexit is probably fairly naive. There are always people in every society with those views.

Do I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Yes I hope so.

I have previously posted long, comprehensive posts answering these types of allegations - as have others - and here we are again, dancing the same dance with the same partners.

I could pick up the phone RIGHT NOW and fictitiously report that on my way back from the local shops, I was jostled, spat upon, and called racist names by two white English men, and THAT call is LOGGED.

The police only follow up in the most EXTREME cases - where injury from violence has been suffered - but even if anyone from the police DID come out to' follow up' my report - WHAT THE FECK can they do to ascertain that my report is truthful?

I tell them a story, cannot identify the 'perpetrators' - who are long gone anyway - and it is just one more 'Hate Crime' on the records.

It's funny how the FACTS and STATISTICS which I have often reproduced in my posts to corroborate what I am saying - the EU Referendum one's included - have been decried and denied, yet a quite MEANINGLESS set of 'statistics' which are the result of highly questionable 'Telephone' report lines, are waved aloft as if they were IRREFUTABLE proof.

[Niamh.]

Can we stop with the "some people" posts please?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Can we stop with the "some people" posts please?

I apologise Niamh - Post corrected.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Can we stop with the "some people" posts please?

It seems like some people just can't, sadly.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You have no way of knowing if the people carrying out the assaults even voted in the referendum at all!

You say it's in England the bulk of these crimes are reported, how can you know that for sure? Do you have access to the details or statistics of those kinds of crimes reported in the other countries of the union?

Since the referendum there has actually an effort to urge people to report hate, so it's very hard to say if the rise in reports is a rise in the crime, or a rise in the reporting of the crime and a rise in awareness.

We should always be concerned about any hate crime but trying to make it an issue of Brexit is probably fairly naive. There are always people in every society with those views.

Do I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Yes I hope so.

I wish I was free to reveal things I have and am working on and due or have been taken to Court as to your point in the first paragraph.
However I must not.

I am a Lawyer, I talk to other Lawyers across the UK,the rise is mainly in England, however there is validity to your point that more incidents and crimes not reported before are likely being now, however again, I am hearing more and more of the terminology of, ''we voted to get rid of you, why are you still here''.
Again ignore that if you choose.

No one is making it about brexit either, I said the referendum had brought out of the woodwork a minority who held racist,xenophobic and other prejudiced views.

I stress a minority again, that is what I said, no one is saying at all England is a racist Country,only that these incidents and yes crimes too, are on the rise in England particularly.

I don't either make mountains out of molehills, I just do my job in working Law, and I know what I and my colleagues come across and have heard and seen.

You and others can dismiss all you like as to that just to suit your agenda, I would rather my agenda stay as it was before,than have to now deal with people being got at unjustly, just because they are of a different race or nationality.
Do you work in Law, do you see these cases?

Apart from just questioning my integrity,what actual facts have you to say this is not the case as to these rising incidents and crimes.
Are or even the Police wrong too in your eyes who recommend the charging for said incidents/crimes.

[Livia]

No one knows who voted in or out, it's not something that anyone is obliged to reveal, ever. What's more, it would make no difference to a criminal proceeding at all. There are no statistics on whether people who voted to leave are more violent/racist than those who voted remain. I am also a lawyer. I have access to all kinds of statistics... but not those. Because they don't exist.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It seems like some people just can't, sadly.

less of your cheek Mister

[Tom4784]

1. English is a nationality, not a race.

2. Patriotism is a poison, I'd rather see things for what they are then blind myself with a rose tinted view of what I want things to be.

3. Hate crimes did become more prevalent after the vote and they were only the reported ones. The result of Brexit was decided on the issue of immigration, lots of ignorant people voted for an exit although ultimately the vote wouldn't affect immigration either way. I can't say I approve of the EU's shade but if I'm honest, I can't say it's wrong. Pointing out the rise of neo-nazism in Germany doesn't lessen the rise in hate crime here as a result of Brexit.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

1. English is a nationality, not a race.

2. Patriotism is a poison, I'd rather see things for what they are then blind myself with a rose tinted view of what I want things to be.

3. Hate crimes did become more prevalent after the vote and they were only the reported ones. The result of Brexit was decided on the issue of immigration, lots of ignorant people voted for an exit although ultimately the vote wouldn't affect immigration either way. I can't say I approve of the EU's shade but if I'm honest, I can't say it's wrong. Pointing out the rise of neo-nazism in Germany doesn't lessen the rise in hate crime here as a result of Brexit.

Not really disagreeing with your points. but equally the term racists have been thrown around when its actually nationalist in nature, not racist. The whole issue is being mis termed and confused.

I don't really think racist issues have increased since brexit, I do believe there has been a clear, marked increase in nationalism since brexit. I defy anyone to deny that, and it has been accompanied by hate in a minority of cases.

I think when this is clarified, to me anyway, it identifies the issues that we do have now.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Not really disagreeing with your points. but equally the term racists have been thrown around when its actually nationalist in nature, not racist. The whole issue is being mis termed and confused.

I don't really think racist issues have increased since brexit, I do believe there has been a clear, marked increase in nationalism since brexit. I defy anyone to deny that, and it has been accompanied by hate in a minority of cases.

I think when this is clarified, to me anyway, it identifies the issues that we do have now.

I don't think there's been a rise in racism either, it's always been there, it's just that the racists felt emboldened when Brexit won.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't think there's been a rise in racism either, it's always been there, it's just that the racists felt emboldened when Brexit won.

Yes, I can agree with that.

I think also, people who voted to leave - like myself - who do not consider themselves racist and, indeed in some cases come from a small ethnic group themselves, should make it clear at every opportunity that their decision was not based solely on immigration and that racists using the vote as an excuse are scum. But we already knew that. Like you say, racism has always been there. When my family came over to this country after the war they were welcomed by the majority... but despite what they'd just been through, they were abused by a small section of society.

Less than a lifetime ago this country went to war for Poland. I don't think we've changed that much as a country... I just think racists are challenged on their beliefs more, and I approve of that.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

1. English is a nationality, not a race.

2. Patriotism is a poison, I'd rather see things for what they are then blind myself with a rose tinted view of what I want things to be.

3. Hate crimes did become more prevalent after the vote and they were only the reported ones. The result of Brexit was decided on the issue of immigration, lots of ignorant people voted for an exit although ultimately the vote wouldn't affect immigration either way. I can't say I approve of the EU's shade but if I'm honest, I can't say it's wrong. Pointing out the rise of neo-nazism in Germany doesn't lessen the rise in hate crime here as a result of Brexit.

The Oxford English dictionary defines race as a group of persons connected by common descent. That's good enough for me.

Everyone who doesn't share your pessimistic view is deluded then?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

English most certainly is a race. Not feeling over sensitive at all just surprised by how disloyal to your country you sound if you are English. If you are from another part of the union then you seem to have a real issue with the English. There isn't a nation on earth that can do no wrong but living in this country is pretty damn good and allows you freedoms you wouldn't get in other places. Freedom it sounds like you are taking very much for granted. The infantalisation is all in your head.

No, no it isn't. I am English, however I have the rare ability to be objective about the decisions we make as a country and how they impact globally.
I am very proud of the freedoms we have in this country this is the whole reason for my dismay ( no pun intended) those freedoms are being eroded.

To me the essence of Britishness IS demanding your rights, holding those in positions of responsibility to account to maintain our civil liberties.
How English is it to be duped, lied to and be spoonfed misinformation?

This country could very quickly ed up like A N other in the blink of an eye with a few subtle changes to legislation, subverting 100s of years of struggles that took generations to achieve, yet anyone who doesn't roll over is seen as some social disobedient?.... I'm sorry but that smacks of conditioning and I'm seeing it happening more and more.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I find the people who knock the UK the hardest are usually people who have little or no experience of anywhere else.

In what context? do I have to be descended from immigrants to extol the virtues of this country without analysis...is this what you're saying?

[Northern Monkey]

Since when did wanting to control immigration from western predominantly white countries become racism?Somebody argued that 'English' is'nt a raceWell neither is Polish,Czech,Latvian or Spanish

[Niamh.]

Closed for cleaning, can I ask people to just stick to discussing the topic and not eachother when i reopen this. It's not that hard, surely?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Since when did wanting to control immigration from western predominantly white countries become racism?Somebody argued that 'English' is'nt a raceWell neither is Polish,Czech,Latvian or Spanish

It's crazy isn't it? And there were so many other reasons to vote Brexit yet again and again it's made into a race issue.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Closed for cleaning, can I ask people to just stick to discussing the topic and not eachother when i reopen this. It's not that hard, surely?

That's Dedication
You are such a Fine Lady