[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

We have touched on this in threads in the past Kazanne, forget what you may be made to feel, no one should think themselves less valid to comment when they have a strong view on the subject.

Too many things have happened I cannot explain and as you see others hold that view as well.

I try to not close my mind to anything, it often helps steer me to thinking differently on issues after what I hear from others or it helps reinforce my original view.
Like Ammi,I agree, it would be good to hear your take on this, so whenever you may want to, don't be put off by anything,you know what you feel, what you have come across just as and probably a great many others have too.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

We have touched on this in threads in the past Kazanne, forget what you may be made to feel, no one should think themselves less valid to comment when they have a strong view on the subject.

Too many things have happened I cannot explain and as you see others hold that view as well.

I try to not close my mind to anything, it often helps steer me to thinking differently on issues after what I hear from others or it helps reinforce my original view.
Like Ammi,I agree, it would be good to hear your take on this, so whenever you may want to, don't be put off by anything,you know what you feel, what you have come across just as and probably a great many others have too.

I've never really thought about this subject but it's been really interesting to read. I probably fall more in line with being a non believer but like you said Joey it's important to still keep an open mind, that's how we manage to expand our scientific knowledge, by thinking outside of what we know/think we know. Kirk's rat experiment was really interesting for example, and just goes to show there's so much we can't understand yet, so I don't see how anything can be written off as false even if someone doesn't believe it personally. It's kind of limiting to only consider things that have already been proved by science... it's a funny logic because if scientists themselves did that we'd never progress our understanding of anything

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

I don't believe in life before birth.However i respect your right to believe it and your opinion is just as valid as anyones.I don't think you're a 'simpleton'

Just as i'm not religious however i find religion very interesting.I'm reading The Bible right now.It's a fascinating insight into life in ancient times.

[Northern Monkey]

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

NM
there is no Heaven
thats just films

[Crimson Dynamo]

I never really know why people cant be amazed with real life and all the amazing things that natural selection, chance and time have given us. There is so much to learn about.Who has time for made up crap?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I never really know why people cant be amazed with real life and all the amazing things that natural selection, chance and time have given us. There is so much to learn about.Who has time for made up crap?

So true.You only have to look at the universe and origins of life to be amazed.That's just not enough for many people though.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So true.You only have to look at the universe and origins of life to be amazed.That's just not enough for many people though.

I mean someone tell me this is'nt frickin amazing...

Youtube video

Youtube video

[thesheriff443]

I tend to think using logic, not looked at this topic
There is a large number of doctors psychiatrics that a persons life will be determended before the age of five.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I tend to think using logic, not looked at this topic
There is a large number of doctors psychiatrics that a persons life will be determended before the age of five.

Sounds interesting....But how?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Sounds interesting....But how?

Its been a while since a doctor gave a talk on this subject, I'm sure there will be some material on the internet on it.

[Kizzy]

I do yes, My daughter at 2 used to cry when I called her charlotte insisting she was called rebecca :/

[kirklancaster]

I have witnessed my own children when they were very young babies, and now my granddaughter, having 'Nightmares'.

It is accepted by the experts that children can have 'Night Terrors' from the age of one month, and that by the age of one year old, they can have 'Nightmares'.

I do not agree with their opinion on the difference between these two 'experiences', but for the purpose of this post, I will accept that the two mean different things.

My point is this; a baby who is but a few month's old has no life experience, no 'memories', and most certainly - though they are 'conscious' - are bereft of knowledge and not even 'aware' of their environment in the true sense of the word.

What is it then, that can cause a two month's old baby to scream or cry out and wake it from a deep sleep and leave it upset and frightened with heart racing and often sweat soaked - all the symptoms of having experienced a Nightmare.

I do not accept for one moment the 'experts' view that such 'Night Terrors' are caused by a conflict between the body's 'Drive' to sleep and its 'Drive' to wake – a condition which they call a 'Confusional Event' – or are probably caused by 'disorientation due to incomplete awakening'.

In my opinion – and some notable scientists – the baby is experiencing a nightmare.

This being so, I ask; what event, person or entity can so frighten a baby who has no life experience or awareness, and therefore NONE of it's own stored MEMORIES of such things?

A baby is hardly reliving REAL memories – like the time it was chased through a town centre by a mob of knife-wielding louts, or remembering in a deep sleep cycle, the time that Great Aunt Maude nearly caught it stealing a fiver from her handbag.

Nor has it the ABILITY or MEANS to imagine any 'Nightmare Scenario', when even the most vividly and bizarrely convoluted of imagined nightmares are either dependent upon the memories of REAL direct experiences (or 'autobiographic episodic memories') or indirect acquired knowledge for their existence.

So here we have a baby whose mind is a virtual 'Blank Canvas' experiencing SOMETHING which gives it nightmares.

There can be only be two possible explanations for such an enigma – Reincarnation or perhaps the baby's mind is unconsciously accessing SOMEONE ELSE'S memories.

As crazy as both the above may seem to my dear friend LT and some others on here, the evidence for Reincarnation is now so extensive that it cannot be easily dismissed, and there is also a growing field of scientific thought – which experimental conclusions support – that actual Memory does not simply reside within the brain, but is, instead, rather stored OUTSIDE of it in some type of 'electro magnetic field'.

Extensive research into 'Memory' has been carried out independently by numerous scientists over many decades, and some of the findings are surprising;

Celebrated psychologist and behaviourist,*Karl Lashley – one of the world's most respected 'Brain' experts – carried out an experiment on 'Lab Rats' in which he first taught the rats tricks before removing half of their brains.

The rats REMEMBERED the tricks.

Lashley then used another set of rats which he taught the same tricks to before removing the opposite hemisphere of the brain to the first set.

The rats STILL remembered the tricks.

It seems, that if memory is truly housed within the brain, then where exactly – when memory is still extant when the complete brain had been removed – is a great mystery.

I first came across controversial Biologist, Researcher, and Author, Rupert Sheldrake when I was a young 'dreamer' searching religion and philosophy for 'answers' to the 'meaning of life', and he actually proposed certain theories which not only made sense to me, but also 'crystallised' some of my own 'scrambed' thoughts.

Sheldrake has a theory – which he calls 'Morphic Resonance' – that memory need not be stored specifically or exclusively within the brain, but rather in a type of 'Morphogenic Field' (similar to Kirlian Light Auras) which surrounds an organism (the body AND brain in humans) and that each individual member of a species (not just humans or animal life) inherits a 'collective' memory from 'past members' of the species' who then adds his contribution to this collective memory through living his life, which is then 'drawn upon' by other members of the species in the future.

I have neither the time or inclination to expound upon this here, but I recommend giving Sheldrake a good read for those interested in this fascinating subject.

Anyway, Sheldrake's theories loosely parallel my own thoughts, and goes some way to explaining why people have very real 'memories' which are NOT their own, as well as the phenomena of 'ghosts' – if you think about it.

It can also explain why babies with no 'episodic memories' of their own can have nightmares.

Reincarnation is another post.

[Ammi]

...(my own thoughts and the quick version..)...is that it's to do with the transcending into sleep cycles and for whatever reason a baby struggling with that...we wouldn't know if they were having a nightmare or night terror as such because they're unable to communicate and convey... but just that they're displaying symptoms/actions of...obviously small babies can't communicate/can't consciously associate etc with stresses..but they do feel stress/they do feel confusion, they do feel discomforts etc so that transfers according to the situation and if they are in certain parts of sleep cycles and feeling a type of confusion/emotional stress..?.../that would convey in the appearance of a night terror/nightmare etc...anyways I have no knowledge of these things but those would be my thoughts...

[Redway]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have witnessed my own children when they were very young babies, and now my granddaughter, having 'Nightmares'.

It is accepted by the experts that children can have 'Night Terrors' from the age of one month, and that by the age of one year old, they can have 'Nightmares'.

I do not agree with their opinion on the difference between these two 'experiences', but for the purpose of this post, I will accept that the two mean different things.

My point is this; a baby who is but a few month's old has no life experience, no 'memories', and most certainly - though they are 'conscious' - are bereft of knowledge and not even 'aware' of their environment in the true sense of the word.

What is it then, that can cause a two month's old baby to scream or cry out and wake it from a deep sleep and leave it upset and frightened with heart racing and often sweat soaked - all the symptoms of having experienced a Nightmare.

I do not accept for one moment the 'experts' view that such 'Night Terrors' are caused by a conflict between the body's 'Drive' to sleep and its 'Drive' to wake – a condition which they call a 'Confusional Event' – or are probably caused by 'disorientation due to incomplete awakening'.

In my opinion – and some notable scientists – the baby is experiencing a nightmare.

This being so, I ask; what event, person or entity can so frighten a baby who has no life experience or awareness, and therefore NONE of it's own stored MEMORIES of such things?

A baby is hardly reliving REAL memories – like the time it was chased through a town centre by a mob of knife-wielding louts, or remembering in a deep sleep cycle, the time that Great Aunt Maude nearly caught it stealing a fiver from her handbag.

Nor has it the ABILITY or MEANS to imagine any 'Nightmare Scenario', when even the most vividly and bizarrely convoluted of imagined nightmares are either dependent upon the memories of REAL direct experiences (or 'autobiographic episodic memories') or indirect acquired knowledge for their existence.

So here we have a baby whose mind is a virtual 'Blank Canvas' experiencing SOMETHING which gives it nightmares.

There can be only be two possible explanations for such an enigma – Reincarnation or perhaps the baby's mind is unconsciously accessing SOMEONE ELSE'S memories.

As crazy as both the above may seem to my dear friend LT and some others on here, the evidence for Reincarnation is now so extensive that it cannot be easily dismissed, and there is also a growing field of scientific thought – which experimental conclusions support – that actual Memory does not simply reside within the brain, but is, instead, rather stored OUTSIDE of it in some type of 'electro magnetic field'.

Extensive research into 'Memory' has been carried out independently by numerous scientists over many decades, and some of the findings are surprising;

Celebrated psychologist and behaviourist,*Karl Lashley – one of the world's most respected 'Brain' experts – carried out an experiment on 'Lab Rats' in which he first taught the rats tricks before removing half of their brains.

The rats REMEMBERED the tricks.

Lashley then used another set of rats which he taught the same tricks to before removing the opposite hemisphere of the brain to the first set.

The rats STILL remembered the tricks.

It seems, that if memory is truly housed within the brain, then where exactly – when memory is still extant when the complete brain had been removed – is a great mystery.

I first came across controversial Biologist, Researcher, and Author, Rupert Sheldrake when I was a young 'dreamer' searching religion and philosophy for 'answers' to the 'meaning of life', and he actually proposed certain theories which not only made sense to me, but also 'crystallised' some of my own 'scrambed' thoughts.

Sheldrake has a theory – which he calls 'Morphic Resonance' – that memory need not be stored specifically or exclusively within the brain, but rather in a type of 'Morphogenic Field' (similar to Kirlian Light Auras) which surrounds an organism (the body AND brain in humans) and that each individual member of a species (not just humans or animal life) inherits a 'collective' memory from 'past members' of the species' who then adds his contribution to this collective memory through living his life, which is then 'drawn upon' by other members of the species in the future.

I have neither the time or inclination to expound upon this here, but I recommend giving Sheldrake a good read for those interested in this fascinating subject.

Anyway, Sheldrake's theories loosely parallel my own thoughts, and goes some way to explaining why people have very real 'memories' which are NOT their own, as well as the phenomena of 'ghosts' – if you think about it.

It can also explain why babies with no 'episodic memories' of their own can have nightmares.

Reincarnation is another post.

I just took a little stroll down memory-lane over the weekend and looked back at some of my old threads and I’ve got to say this post especially really struck me. I don’t know if you’re still an active member on here but if you are would you mind expounding on reincarnation at some point? I’d be very interested to hear your views on that.

[Johnnyuk123]

Great post Kirk! Good to have you back online.
I have a simple solution to the baby having nightmares.
You didn't accidentally let her see my avatar just before putting her to bed?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Here is a short and succinct summary of what happens after you die and touches on before you are born

Youtube video

This chap is an American astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. Since 1996, he has been the Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for Earth and Space in New York City. The center is part of the American Museum of Natural History, where Tyson founded the Department of Astrophysics in 1997 and has been a research associate in the department since 2003.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Here is a short and succinct summary of what happens after you die and touches on before you are born

Youtube video

This chap is an American astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. Since 1996, he has been the Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for Earth and Space in New York City. The center is part of the American Museum of Natural History, where Tyson founded the Department of Astrophysics in 1997 and has been a research associate in the department since 2003.

Great video, he seems like a really interesting man

[Crimson Dynamo]

Development evolving:The origins and meanings of instinct

Every complex behavior challenges us to identify its origins. How do birds know
to migrate south for the winter? How do border collies know to herd sheep?
How do sea turtles find their way back home to the beach on which they
hatched?

for example:
Gilbert Gottlieb spent much of his career investigating another form of
imprinting— auditory imprinting—in which newly hatched chicks and
ducklings are attracted to the mother's call8. Because the behavior of
hatchlings seemed to be expressed without any obvious experience with the
mother or her call, this adaptive behavior was thought to be an instinct.
However, Gottlieb pursued this question in a way that no one else had before
him by asking whether embryos obtain critical experiences while still in the
egg. Amazingly, he found that they do: Embryos vocalize from within the
egg, and these vocalizations shape the development of the auditory system
in a way that is critical for their post-hatching attraction to the mother's call.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ces7%E2%80%939.

[The Slim Reaper]

There are also tens of millions of years of evolution to take into account, so even a function like hiccups is believed to be from a time when our ancestors had gills.The answers will be found in biology, not metaphysics.

[Jessica.]

I hate that I can't even get involved in threads like this, the subject interests me, but everyone will call me a bully for saying it doesn't exist instead of there being mutual respect for both believers and non believers. I've already seen some of that attitude after reading the thread, so I guess I can't get involved.

[user104658]

In terms of the rat hemispheres experiment, in order to understand why they still remembered the tricks all you really need is an understanding of how RAID redundancies work for things like web servers.

Web servers have multiple hard drives that work in unison. All of the data is on both drives. If one drive dies or is removed completely, no data is lost because there's an exact copy on the twinned drive (or however many other drives are in the array).

So why could the rats remember no matter which half of the brain was removed? "Where" is the memory stored? Answer is simple enough: there's probably a copy of the memory on each hemisphere.

[user104658]

One thing that IS fascinating in terms of "past lives" though and something that we still know very, very little about is genetic memory which is quite fascinating really. Nothing is born a blank slate; even humans (pretty useless at birth), we still reflexively know how to breathe, swallow, seek out a nipple... even swim.

You can see it VERY clearly in other animals - many mammals can walk from birth, monkeys know how to cling to their parent. Spiders "know" how to construct extremely intricate webs, no practice required.

So there ARE elements of memory that are coded directly into genetic code before there's any physical structure at all to hold them, there's no question about that. How it works? Still mostly an unknown. IN THEORY could living memories be inherited from an ancestor? Who knows. It wouldn't be reincarnation of course, the memories wouldn't be from someone you "were" after they died, they'd be a copy of who they were at the point of passing on their DNA, if such things are possible at all. That I suppose would be indistinguishable from actually "being that person in another life". You might just be borrowing a snippet of a great-great-great-grandparents memory.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

One thing that IS fascinating in terms of "past lives" though and something that we still know very, very little about is genetic memory which is quite fascinating really. Nothing is born a blank slate; even humans (pretty useless at birth), we still reflexively know how to breathe, swallow, seek out a nipple... even swim.

You can see it VERY clearly in other animals - many mammals can walk from birth, monkeys know how to cling to their parent. Spiders "know" how to construct extremely intricate webs, no practice required.

So there ARE elements of memory that are coded directly into genetic code before there's any physical structure at all to hold them, there's no question about that. How it works? Still mostly an unknown. IN THEORY could living memories be inherited from an ancestor? Who knows. It wouldn't be reincarnation of course, the memories wouldn't be from someone you "were" after they died, they'd be a copy of who they were at the point of passing on their DNA, if such things are possible at all. That I suppose would be indistinguishable from actually "being that person in another life". You might just be borrowing a snippet of a great-great-great-grandparents memory.

Listen, Soldier Boy (your posts are very interesting, by the way), do we know you from somewhere?