[Kazanne]

I don't think so,i used to be a nanny in NY to a little girl who grew up with bi polar,she was the lovliest little girl,I found out many years later ,she commited suicide at only 20 years old,she seemed to have everything ,lovely family,lovely home I don't think she ever used hers to be cruel ,it can be a terrible illness.

[Vicky.]

No, but I do think a lot of cruel people BLAME it on mental illnesses. I mean, near every murder claims mental illness in court don't they..

[Twosugars]

I don't know what people think bipolar is, but it is not insanity. Stephen Fry is bipolar, for example.
Afaik, it is depression interspersed with periods of mania, i.e hyperactivity, grand plans etc. (like a opposite of depression),so mood swings both ways.
Of course, bipolar people can suffer from other, co-morbid mental conditions which may or may not include psychosis which is what we commonly think of as insanity, i.e. lack of touch with reality (delusions, voices etc), for example schizophrenia etc
But just bipolar doesn't make you cruel or crazy. Unbalanced - yes: sometimes depressed, sometimes over the top.
Plus bipolar comes in two types, 1 and 2, mild and severe.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I don't know what people think bipolar is, but it is not insanity. Stephen Fry is bipolar, for example.
Afaik, it is depression interspersed with periods of mania, i.e hyperactivity, grand plans etc. (like a opposite of depression),so mood swings both ways.
Of course, bipolar people can suffer from other, co-morbid mental conditions which may or may not include psychosis which is what we commonly think of as insanity, i.e. lack of touch with reality (delusions, voices etc), for example schizophrenia etc
But just bipolar doesn't make you cruel or crazy. Unbalanced - yes: sometimes depressed, sometimes over the top.
Plus bipolar comes in two types, 1 and 2, mild and severe.

A psychosis is just a mental illness in the strict sense of the word. I know the DSM likes to limit it more and more to hallucinations and delusions these days (which are even common in bipolar) but it’s been recognised as a type of insanity for centuries. It’s just that medication’s tampered the natural course of bipolar and there’s more emphasis on mild bipolar these days.

The lucid intervals have always been recognised. I don’t think anyone sees it as a chronic form of insanity but acute mania’s used as the stereotype of a mad person. That’s what bipolar’s like in its severe form.

And it should be said that having schizophrenia and bipolar at the same time is close to impssobile. The psychiatrists who love that hybrid schizoaffective label are usually the ones who are only familiar with the watered down version of bipolar and not manic depression in its serious form.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Redway

A psychosis is just a mental illness in the strict sense of the word. I know the DSM likes to limit it more and more to hallucinations and delusions these days (which are even common in bipolar) but it’s been recognised as a type of insanity for centuries. It’s just that medication’s tampered the natural course of bipolar and there’s more emphasis on mild bipolar these days.

The lucid intervals have always been recognised. I don’t think anyone sees it as a chronic form of insanity but acute mania’s used as the stereotype of a mad person. That’s what bipolar’s like in its severe form.

And it should be said that having schizophrenia and bipolar at the same time is close to impssobile. The psychiatrists who love that hybrid schizoaffective label are usually the ones who are only familiar with the watered down version of bipolar and not manic depression in its serious form.

You don't agree with schizoaffective label? Kraepelin himself, whose book you cite, eventually questioned sharp division between schizophrenia and mood disorders and allowed that some cases may fall in between the two.
I dunno, my gut feeling is to treat disorders of affect separately from psychotic symptoms, like I said earlier.
Then again who really knows? As you say, DSM itself keeps on tinkering with the whole system. Probably we don't know yet how to classify things properly.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

You don't agree with schizoaffective label? Kraepelin himself, whose book you cite, eventually questioned sharp division between schizophrenia and mood disorders and allowed that some cases may fall in between the two.
I dunno, my gut feeling is to treat disorders of affect separately from psychotic symptoms, like I said earlier.
Then again who really knows? As you say, DSM itself keeps on tinkering with the whole system. Probably we don't know yet how to classify things properly.

That’s where other types of bipolar psychosis and the unsystematic schizophrenias (paraphrenias) come in. A true schizobiopolar mix almost doesn’t exist it’s that rare. 8 time’s out of ten schizoaffective psychosis is a misdiagnosis.

You’ll have to forget all about the DSM and the artificial division between affective and psychotic symptoms. It’s only recently in the DSM that psychosis has been limited to hallucinations and delusions but that’s not the original definition of psychosis or how it works in reality. Like I say a psychosis is just a mental illness in the truest sense of the word. Compared to the neuroses that don’t involve the mental plain directly (just nervous symptoms).

Schizophrenia’s a type of premature dementia. Hallucinations and delusions are just accessory symptoms of a defect syndrome that’s going on in the background and those accessory symptoms are just as common in schizophrenia as they are in other forms of dementia and other psychoses (including bipolar disorder). You’re already going wrong by hyping up the accessory symptoms assuming that hallucinations always point at schizophrenia and nothing else.

Like I say the DSM’s trash. Familiarise yourself with Kraepelin and Leonard.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Redway

That’s where other types of bipolar psychosis and the unsystematic schizophrenias (paraphrenias) come in. A true schizobiopolar mix almost doesn’t exist it’s that rare. 8 time’s out of ten schizoaffective psychosis is a misdiagnosis.

You’ll have to forget all about the DSM and the artificial division between affective and psychotic symptoms. It’s only recently in the DSM that psychosis has been limited to hallucinations and delusions but that’s not the original definition of psychosis or how it works in reality. Like I say a psychosis is just a mental illness in the truest sense of the word. Compared to the neuroses that don’t involve the mental plain directly (just nervous symptoms).

Schizophrenia’s a type of premature dementia. Hallucinations and delusions are just accessory symptoms of a defect syndrome that’s going on in the background and those accessory symptoms are just as common in schizophrenia as they are in other forms of dementia and other psychoses (including bipolar disorder). You’re already going wrong by hyping up the accessory symptoms assuming that hallucinations always point at schizophrenia and nothing else.

Like I say the DSM’s trash. Familiarise yourself with Kraepelin and Leonard.

I envy your clarity of view and respect your reference to the old greats like Kraepelin and Leonard.
I'm not saying the connections between symptoms that constitute recognized syndromes are incorrect. But I can't help thinking we are still far from certain. It is as if we have a vast tapestry in front of us and are able to see only certain spots on it (syndromes), with some fragments of patterns weaved from different palettes of colours from the spectrums of mood, cognition and behaviour. And we keep on trying to divine the whole tapestry by connecting and reconnecting those spots in different ways. Something which used to be thought of as unipolar depression with brief hypomanic episodes could now be bipolar 2, some ADHD cases may also be reclassified as bipolar 2, schizophrenia could be bipolar 1 with psychotic features, BPD+dysthymia could be bipolar 2.
I know it's not practical or accepted, bofore or now, but I still prefer to separate the visible threads of the pattern if that makes sense.
edit: having said all that, I love when you mention schizophrenia as premature dementia.

[Vicky.]

I thought biploar was basically severe depression. My GP thought I had it at one stage. I am sure it was bipolar he said..

[Twosugars]

it's depression with periods of being kind of, too well, if that makes sense.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

it's depression with periods of being kind of, too well, if that makes sense.

Ah so depression with random times of pretty much euphoria? That sounds like me actually. There does not seem to be any inbetween either.

Currently on duloxetine. Was on mirtazapine but it like totally knocked me out. Been on amitryptaline and notryptaline too, and citalopram. And various other ADs in the past. None seem to make a difference though.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ah so depression with random times of pretty much euphoria? That sounds like me actually. There does not seem to be any inbetween either.

Currently on duloxetine. Was on mirtazapine but it like totally knocked me out. Been on amitryptaline and notryptaline too, and citalopram. And various other ADs in the past. None seem to make a difference though.

you nailed it, Vicky. Depression and euphoria, in cycles.
when you diagnose depression it is always worth checking how patient feels in between depressive episodes, because it can be bipolar even if it is mild form.
Medications are similar, except for bipolar there's also lithium.
Basically it is about stabilising the mood and reducing suffering.
I have depression officially, although experience mild euphoria sometimes and it makes me wonder. Ha quotiapine, mirtazepine (hated them, like you, made me a zombie) plus citalopram and I'm not great on it.
Ketamine is the next new thing. You can either score it from a dealer or go to NHS Oxford, they do a programme, 135 pound per pop. You need a referral from you gp of course. I think the course is 3 pops (as infusions) plus you can ask for some extra if still not quite there.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ah so depression with random times of pretty much euphoria? That sounds like me actually. There does not seem to be any inbetween either.

Currently on duloxetine. Was on mirtazapine but it like totally knocked me out. Been on amitryptaline and notryptaline too, and citalopram. And various other ADs in the past. None seem to make a difference though.

Depression and mania. Mania’s a nice word for insanity but that’s at the extreme end. There’s more emphasis on hypomania (the euphoria you’re talking about) these days but in its hard form it’s all the way up there with schizophrenia.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

it's depression with periods of being kind of, too well, if that makes sense.

Acute mania’s a bit more than feeling too well.

[Beso]

Stacey on ee is bipolar.

[Beso]

You should enter the national 2sug..

Do you 2 manage to remember when and what to take?

[Twosugars]

you don't take it all at the same time; they try you on one or two and if it doesn't work, switch to something else

[Twosugars]

I still think this thread is confused. People talk about bipolar but it sounds like borderline personality disorder or schizophrenia.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I still think this thread is confused. People talk about bipolar but it sounds like borderline personality disorder or schizophrenia.

That’s because it’s on such a broad spectrum. It just pisses me off the way certain people emphasise the mild end of the bipolar spectrum without being aware of the full range. Like I said the older names hint at the real nature of bipolar much better. And it should also be said that there’s other forms of bipolar psychosis that aren’t manic-depressive but that’s not something people who just memorise the DSM and A-Level psychology books know about.

[Redway]

https://archive.org/details/manicdepressivei00kraeuoftM

I’m leaving this out here for people who really want to know what classic ‘bipolar’ looks like. The new name doesn’t half trivialise the illness.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Redway

That’s because it’s on such a broad spectrum. It just pisses me off the way certain people emphasise the mild end of the bipolar spectrum without being aware of the full range. Like I said the older names hint at the real nature of bipolar much better. And it should also be said that there’s other forms of bipolar psychosis that aren’t manic-depressive but that’s not something people who just memorise the DSM and A-Level psychology books know about.

Thank you for the link to Kraepelin book. I see you are old school.
could we talk about it further? Pm or here? Or a new thread about mental health?

[AnnieK]

My ex was bi polar and was on anti psychotic meds.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

My ex was bi polar and was on anti psychotic meds.

Antipsychotic meds are used widely these days, including treatment of depression.

[Vicky.]

The item you have requested had an error:
Item cannot be found.
which prevents us from displaying this page.

If you would like to report this problem as an error report, you may do so here.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The item you have requested had an error:
Item cannot be found.
which prevents us from displaying this page.

If you would like to report this problem as an error report, you may do so here.

https://archive.org/details/manicdepressivei00krae

It’s a long read but worth it if you want to know the full range of unmedicated manic depression.

[michael21]

Originally Posted by the truth

....

Dont know but it a good question