[smudgie]

I can't see her winning.
I think the fact that she has got so far should send a warning shot.
People are turning away from the left, we need to be more centrist.
As has been said, people need to be able to discuss their grievances without being shot down as bigots and racists.

[RichardG]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I can't see her winning.
I think the fact that she has got so far should send a warning shot.
People are turning away from the left, we need to be more centrist.
As has been said, people need to be able to discuss their grievances without being shot down as bigots and racists.

that will not change anytime soon regardless of who wins

let's be honest

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I can't see her winning.
I think the fact that she has got so far should send a warning shot.
People are turning away from the left, we need to be more centrist.
As has been said, people need to be able to discuss their grievances without being shot down as bigots and racists.

All opinions come with consequences and everyone can have an opinion on someone else's opinion. What you are saying here is basically 'I want my opinion and I don't want anyone to say anything that I don't like about that opinion.'

Freedom of Speech is not a one way street.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Your comment has nicely embroidered what I was trying to say. I do not support this woman... I don't support people like her... and simply saying that immigrations needs to be controlled gives YOU the right to suggest I sound like a Nazi? LOL...

I didn't suggest you supported her, I said your words echoed hers.

[Kizzy]

Don't know about the French but Brits get all shamefaced about sounding prejudiced, that's why they accuse others of invented behaviours with negative connotations such as 'PC' 'SJW' or 'virtue signalling' it detracts from their very real flaws.

[Wizard.]

Macron is NOT centerist he is far left disguised as a centerist by the far left. If you think Jeremy Corbyn is a far left socialist who had concerns about the EU, Macron is very very very pro-EU.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

All opinions come with consequences and everyone can have an opinion on someone else's opinion. What you are saying here is basically 'I want my opinion and I don't want anyone to say anything that I don't like about that opinion.'

Freedom of Speech is not a one way street.

Nope, what I am saying is if you keep shutting people down from having a debate then you can expect them to vote for someone they THINK will get their point across for them. So yes, of course there will be consequences.
Unfortunately as we all know, we don't always get what we are promised from politicians.
I consider my opinion no more or less important than anyone else's opinion, so therefore I am keen to hear opinions from all sides of any subject, one thing I have learned in life is that everything is not always black or white and even opinions can be swayed if you have an open mind.

[RichardG]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

All opinions come with consequences and everyone can have an opinion on someone else's opinion. What you are saying here is basically 'I want my opinion and I don't want anyone to say anything that I don't like about that opinion.'

Freedom of Speech is not a one way street.

the problem isn't that people should be denied their freedom of speech to respond with their disagreement of someone's opinion. they can do so in any way that they like. the problem is that people feel the best way to respond to growing concerns is to shut down debate with simple insults, or to absolutely refuse to even consider with an open mind what someone else has to say.

this is coming from the perspective of someone who neither supported brexit nor opposed it, someone who neither supported trump nor opposed him. someone who has absolutely no interest in engaging in politics because the whole thing has become nothing but a school playground of childish insults.

the serious debates section of this forum is a shining example.

and this is not a one sided comment, it applies to people on both sides of the political spectrum. the far left and the far right are both morons who i have no time for but most people are seemingly moving further and further in each direction which i don't believe is in the long term interests of anyone.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by RichardG

the problem isn't that people should be denied their freedom of speech to respond with their disagreement of someone's opinion. they can do so in any way that they like. the problem is that people feel the best way to respond to growing concerns is to shut down debate with simple insults, or to absolutely refuse to even consider with an open mind what someone else has to say.

this is coming from the perspective of someone who neither supported brexit nor opposed it, someone who neither supported trump nor opposed him. someone who has absolutely no interest in engaging in politics because the whole thing has become nothing but a school playground of childish insults.

the serious debates section of this forum is a shining example.

and this is not a one sided comment, it applies to people on both sides of the political spectrum. the far left and the far right are both morons who i have no time for but most people are seemingly moving further and further in each direction which i don't believe is in the long term interests of anyone.

Here we go again..... :/

[RichardG]

here we go again indeed, kizzy.

[Withano]

Imagine voting for a Nazi cos somebody on the left called you a racist! They sure showed them!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Nope, what I am saying is if you keep shutting people down from having a debate then you can expect them to vote for someone they THINK will get their point across for them. So yes, of course there will be consequences.
Unfortunately as we all know, we don't always get what we are promised from politicians.
I consider my opinion no more or less important than anyone else's opinion, so therefore I am keen to hear opinions from all sides of any subject, one thing I have learned in life is that everything is not always black or white and even opinions can be swayed if you have an open mind.

Accusations do not shut down opinions, If someone accuses you of something that isn't true then why should it hinder your opinion? I've been accused of sillly accusations in the past and it's never shut down my opinion because those accusations are ridiculous and simply untrue.

People who say that their opinions are being shut down are choosing to shut down their opinions themselves. An accusation is just an accusation, It's only when it's true that it has any real power.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by RichardG

here we go again indeed, kizzy.

I'm not entering into this 'debate' that seems to crop up every time there's a slow news day on the forum for a bit of a jolly.


As I have stated before many times accusing someone of bigotry is not an insult if the statement they make is bigoted, it's not down to interpretation by individuals, there is a clear concise dictionary definition as to what denotes bigotry.

Stand behind your statements even if they are, by definition, bigoted.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Accusations do not shut down opinions, If someone accuses you of something that isn't true then why should it hinder your opinion? I've been accused of sillly accusations in the past and it's never shut down my opinion because those accusations are ridiculous and simply untrue.

People who say that their opinions are being shut down are choosing to shut down their opinions themselves. An accusation is just an accusation, It's only when it's true that it has any real power.

I don't think accusations shut down the opinion, more a case of shutting the debate down.
If we all had the patience to listen to each other life would be easier.
Sometimes it is the best way to walk away from a debate if you feel you are banging your head against a wall, much better than it getting into a full scale argument, after all, you might differ on opinions on one subject but agree totally on others.

[Kizzy]

Personally if I hear the term PC I shut down as it means the person I'm talking to can't be bothered to formulate their own responses and relies solely on buzzwords to use as a blanket term for any given issue covering a wide array of topics.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Personally if I hear the term PC I shut down as it means the person I'm talking to can't be bothered to formulate their own responses and relies solely on buzzwords to use as a blanket term for any given issue covering a wide array of topic.

It is thrown around a bit willy nilly.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I don't think accusations shut down the opinion, more a case of shutting the debate down.
If we all had the patience to listen to each other life would be easier.
Sometimes it is the best way to walk away from a debate if you feel you are banging your head against a wall, much better than it getting into a full scale argument, after all, you might differ on opinions on one subject but agree totally on others.

Absolutely agree Smudgie

[UserSince2005]

What a babe,

Hope she wins,

Its time for the EU to crumble and Britain to reign strong.

[Braden]

Le Pen has 'stepped down' as party leader:

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

[Withano]

Omg! Still, she'll probably be replaced with someone just as *****.

[DemolitionRed]

She's still standing as an independent. She has more chance of swinging the vote in her favour doing this.

[Braden]

Interesting. That is actually a very good idea on her behalf.

[UserSince2005]

Devoed, she was a heroine.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm not entering into this 'debate' that seems to crop up every time there's a slow news day on the forum for a bit of a jolly.


As I have stated before many times accusing someone of bigotry is not an insult if the statement they make is bigoted, it's not down to interpretation by individuals, there is a clear concise dictionary definition as to what denotes bigotry.

Stand behind your statements even if they are, by definition, bigoted.

Bigot = intolerant of the opinions of others - something many of your posts show you are. If it sounds like a duck.....

Clear and concise.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't know about the French but Brits get all shamefaced about sounding prejudiced, that's why they accuse others of invented behaviours with negative connotations such as 'PC' 'SJW' or 'virtue signalling' it detracts from their very real flaws.

Pot and kettle and you can't even see it.