[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Impatient... Why were they so quick to vastly underestimate the number of dead it 17? Is a better question, it was to avoid a bigger national outcry while the govt sorted out their grubby DUP deal!

Ever the conspiracy theorist. No-one is saying there aren't many more victims. 80 or 800 - equally as serious and devastating. Why would anyone try to hush up the real figure. It makes no sense.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Ever the conspiracy theorist. No-one is saying there aren't many more victims. 80 or 800 - equally as serious and devastating. Why would anyone try to hush up the real figure. It makes no sense.

For the reason given in the OP maybe?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

Probably as it really does seem like a huge coverup

Far too many unaccounted for and estimates should be much higher. Not confirmed deaths, estimates

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

I think it's more to do with the fact that the government are taking their time so they can sweep it under the carpet until the public have moved on to the next story.

It's been weeks, they know how many people are dead but they are withholding that information for their own benefit.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well that accounts for 1 missing person... where are the rest?

Who are the rest though Kizzy?
Only 79 reported dead or missing, surely that would mean the rest are all accounted for.
The saddest thing about it is that there may be no closure for some families as identification of everybody could be impossible.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Who are the rest though Kizzy?
Only 79 reported dead or missing, surely that would mean the rest are all accounted for.
The saddest thing about it is that there may be no closure for some families as identification of everybody could be impossible.

That's true actually, the 79 death toll does include the missing

The officer in charge did say they expect that to rise though because of people who might have been in the flats who they did not know were in there/were not official residents

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Who are the rest though Kizzy?
Only 79 reported dead or missing, surely that would mean the rest are all accounted for.
The saddest thing about it is that there may be no closure for some families as identification of everybody could be impossible.

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

Will there be 'bodies' though? Except for the flats where the fire was put out faster i guess. I saw it claimed by a fireman that there were 3 tents full of 'bodies' but that could of course be bull. Have seen a few residents in facebook videos saying they saw bodies being brought out of the flats after dark too..as if they were trying to keep it on the quiet :S

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Will there be 'bodies' though? Except for the flats where the fire was put out faster i guess. I saw it claimed by a fireman that there were 3 tents full of 'bodies' but that could of course be bull. Have seen a few residents in facebook videos saying they saw bodies being brought out of the flats after dark too..as if they were trying to keep it on the quiet :S

I don't doubt that, the truth will out in time it always does, look at Hillsborough and how long they had to wait for justice.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

Not if they were illegal immigrants. They have to have something to work with.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not if they were illegal immigrants. They have to have something to work with.

They will be identifiable as human ...probably more so dead than alive.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

Unfortunately there could be no body left to identify in some cases.
Very difficult to DNA ashes in a building that size with so much damage.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Unfortunately there could be no body left to identify in some cases.
Very difficult to DNA ashes in a building that size with so much damage.

There will be skulls and bone, identifiable as a body.

[Shaun]

Without wanting to get too graphic I saw someone say that a cremation takes four hours and leaves effectively no remains... the fire lasted for over 24 didn't it? I just don't know if there's ever going to be everything found.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Without wanting to get too graphic I saw someone say that a cremation takes four hours and leaves effectively no remains... the fire lasted for over 24 didn't it? I just don't know if there's ever going to be everything found.

Something that crossed my mind as well Shaun, we have to accept that some people will never be accounted for unless they are reported missing as there won't be anything left to identify them by.
Very sad.

[Wizard.]

David Lammy is a known manipulator and will say anything to make the Conservatives look bad. In addition, I think 79 people is bad PR anyways and I would see no reason for a cover up and also there are independent institutions that deal with these things.

[Kizzy]

Sorry no money, we gave it all to the DUP.


'Councils face bills running to hundreds of millions of pounds to make tower blocks safe after the Government said it would not guarantee extra money to pay for vital work to prevent a repeat of the Grenfell disaster.

Ninety-five high-rise buildings in 32 local authority areas have failed safety tests, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said yesterday, with hundreds more blocks still to be tested.

'The findings prompted Theresa May to announce a “major national investigation” into the use of cladding on high-rise blocks, with every sample so far tested in the wake of the Grenfell found to be unsafe.'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7809216.html

[Kizzy]

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndepend...4950927281636/

PMQs concerning cladding

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndepend...4950927281636/

PMQs concerning cladding

Yes Blair New Labour started it

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Blair New Labour started it

Started what? cladding with combustable material or the regeneration project.... I wouldn't be so quick to latch on to that until there is conformation of how many towers are affected and when they were clad.

[jaxie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40434741

Det Supt Fiona McCormack said the full toll will only be known when the search and recovery operation is over.
She said: "What I can say is that we believe that around 80 people are either dead or sadly missing and I must presume that they are dead."
The officer added: "I don't want there to be any hidden victims. We want to understand the true human cost of this tragedy."

[Crimson Dynamo]

this whole thing stinks

80 my absolute arse

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

this whole thing stinks

80 my absolute arse

That's for now - they accept there will be many more.

[DemolitionRed]

Grenfell included quite a few relatively big flats -3 bedrooms and even some 4-beds. Hence the large number of children. I guess (quite conservatively) the number of bedrooms must be over 300.

Here's a plan of just one floor

edited to replace bad link

[Livia]

Some people sub-let, have friends staying, have friends staying who are illegally here, have strangers staying, have family staying... I'm not sure how the government is supposed to know exactly how many people were in there at the time of the fire especially in light of the fact that it's going to take a long time for forensic tests on the remains to prove anything at all.