[Merry Mockmas]

The term cool monkey is very odd.

I'm with Arista and think that this might've been a publicity stunt, it is ashame though that the word monkey is so badly associated with racism towards black people that our first reaction to this is "oh no" rather than just seeing it as another way of trying to manipulate kids into wanting the companies next product.

[Cherry Christmas]

Where were the child's parents when he was given this to model

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Where were the child's parents when he was given this to model

His mother commented on the issue saying that she didn't see it as racist.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

To me this shows how easy it is for people who want to be offended, in order to make a political point, to be offended by taking an everyday non-race related comment such as ‘cheeky little monkey’ and blowing it out of all proportion. It is an agenda. It is those that do this that are obsessed with skin colour and are effectively racist.

racist
ˈreɪsɪst/Submit
noun
1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
"I had a fear of being called a racist"
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist; More
adjective
1.
showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at a newsagents"

So not really, at all. Try again.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

His mother commented on the issue saying that she didn't see it as racist.

Interesting p, but then her son was being handed a wedge of cash

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Interesting p, but then her son was being handed a wedge of cash

Yeah, people have used her statement as a reason to say it isn't racist but I don't think her thoughts really do anything to dispel that, at best, this is a case of incredible stupidity on the part of the marketing execs that okayed this.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So if childrens’ clothing has a slogan saying ‘cheeky little monkey’ is that racist in your opinion. There is clearly no racist INTENT. If a black parent is that sensitive then they won’t put it on their child.

And what about clothing stating white is beautiful - is that not allowed. It seems pretty racist to me to only be allowed to state that one skin colour is beautiful.

Who said that the clothes themselves were racist? No one that's who. Pay attention.

Dressing a black child in clothes that say 'coolest monkey in the jungle' is problematic as hell and there are racial implications there whether intentional or not (I don't think it's intentional, I just think whoever okayed this is a ****ing moron). Trying to make it about the clothing is just you trying to downplay something that makes you uncomfortable because accusations of racism are more offensive to you than actual racism itself.

If you actually read the topic and the story properly you would know that the controversy has come, not from the clothes, but the choice of model wearing them.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

His mother commented on the issue saying that she didn't see it as racist.





So not really, at all. Try again.

So if childrens’ clothing has a slogan saying ‘cheeky little monkey’ is that racist in your opinion. There is clearly no racist INTENT. If a black parent is that sensitive then they won’t put it on their child.

And what about clothing stating white is beautiful - is that not allowed. It seems pretty racist to me to only be allowed to state that one skin colour is beautiful.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So if childrens’ clothing has a slogan saying ‘cheeky little monkey’ is that racist in your opinion. There is clearly no racist INTENT. If a black parent is that sensitive then they won’t put it on their child.

And what about clothing stating white is beautiful - is that not allowed. It seems pretty racist to me to only be allowed to state that one skin colour is beautiful.

but it didnt say cheeky monkey, it said something with a completely different meaning.

[Brillopad]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ungle-row.html

A bunch of thugs who think they have an excuse to act like a bunch of thugs. They should be charged.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ungle-row.html

A bunch of thugs who think they have an excuse to act like a bunch of thugs. They should be charged.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Talk about going over the ****ing top...

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Talk about going over the ****ing top...

Ah, I got the video on FB early on, warning to keep away from certain malls and shopping centres due to this carry on.


Obviously if was a shared post from one of my SA friends.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ungle-row.html

A bunch of thugs who think they have an excuse to act like a bunch of thugs. They should be charged.

Talk about going over the top,Jesus and they think that will make things better,effing idiots.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ungle-row.html

A bunch of thugs who think they have an excuse to act like a bunch of thugs. They should be charged.

They don't look much like protesters to me, more like chavs looking for an excuse to be chavs.

[Kazanne]

Maybe the people that passed this are not the racist ones,surely it's the people that are saying it is racist are the problem,people make things worse by throwing wobblys about something that I don't see as racist, I just saw a cute kid in a hoodie,now I see something different because of the fall out, kids are called little monkeys all the time, I had a top with a bunny on once doesn't mean I was a playboy bunny.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Maybe the people that passed this are not the racist ones,surely it's the people that are saying it is racist are the problem,people make things worse by throwing wobblys about something that I don't see as racist, I just saw a cute kid in a hoodie,now I see something different because of the fall out, kids are called little monkeys all the time, I had a top with a bunny on once doesn't mean I was a playboy bunny.

It’s madness Kaz. I can’t help but think that seeing ‘colour’ in everything, even something as harmless as a child’s hoodie, is a combination of either forced offence as part of a political agenda or an unconscious preoccupation with skin colour.

Maybe, just maybe the people producing the hoodie gave it little thought because they don’t focus on skin colour and just see children and children’s clothes. It does make you wonder where racism really begins and ends.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It’s madness Kaz. I can’t help but think that seeing ‘colour’ in everything, even something as harmless as a child’s hoodie, is a combination of either forced offence as part of a political agenda or an unconscious preoccupation with skin colour.

Maybe, just maybe the people producing the hoodie gave it little thought because they don’t focus on skin colour and just see children and children’s clothes. It does make you wonder where racism really begins and ends.

Too true,people seem to look for anything to have a go at.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

A bit of an over-reaction I think over a hoodie as it doesn't seem intentional. I'd make the same error as I'm not really wired to look for outrage or offense in every detail. Honestly it seems a bit unhealthy for our culture to be so obsessed with racism/sexism/-phobia, etc... I mean unless it's happening to an individual personally (which is understandable), but now it seems like society gets caught in the outrage machine from simple exposure.

The first 20 years of my life everyone but my immediate family were minorities, and if the media caught wind of even half the **** we say here, we'd all be doxxed, tared, and feathered for sure... quite scary times I think for someone who is not fully mentally/emotionally developed to have to be so hyper-critical about every little thing they write or tweet. I'm glad I wasn't raised with social media...

Anyway I think the criticism is frankly valid, it's just the emotional over-reaction to everything is getting a bit repetitive and domineering for me.

Addiction is the story of 2017. But not to opioids.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.0b689c3fe82b

Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ration/534198/

Great reads

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Maru

A bit of an over-reaction I think over a hoodie as it doesn't seem intentional. I'd make the same error as I'm not really wired to look for outrage or offense in every detail. Honestly it seems a bit unhealthy for our culture to be so obsessed with racism/sexism/-phobia, etc... I mean unless it's happening to an individual personally (which is understandable), but now it seems like society gets caught in the outrage machine from simple exposure.

The first 20 years of my life everyone but my immediate family were minorities, and if the media caught wind of even half the **** we say here, we'd all be doxxed, tared, and feathered for sure... quite scary times I think for someone who is not fully mentally/emotionally developed to have to be so hyper-critical about every little thing they write or tweet. I'm glad I wasn't raised with social media...

Anyway I think the criticism is frankly valid, it's just the emotional over-reaction to everything is getting a bit repetitive and domineering for me.

Addiction is the story of 2017. But not to opioids.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.0b689c3fe82b

Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ration/534198/

Great reads

Great post?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Maru

A bit of an over-reaction I think over a hoodie as it doesn't seem intentional. I'd make the same error as I'm not really wired to look for outrage or offense in every detail. Honestly it seems a bit unhealthy for our culture to be so obsessed with racism/sexism/-phobia, etc... I mean unless it's happening to an individual personally (which is understandable), but now it seems like society gets caught in the outrage machine from simple exposure.

The first 20 years of my life everyone but my immediate family were minorities, and if the media caught wind of even half the **** we say here, we'd all be doxxed, tared, and feathered for sure... quite scary times I think for someone who is not fully mentally/emotionally developed to have to be so hyper-critical about every little thing they write or tweet. I'm glad I wasn't raised with social media...

Anyway I think the criticism is frankly valid, it's just the emotional over-reaction to everything is getting a bit repetitive and domineering for me.

Addiction is the story of 2017. But not to opioids.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.0b689c3fe82b

Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ration/534198/

Great reads

I do agree to a certain extent. I mean slogans have been put on T shirts for decades designed to shock and to make people think. So who cares?

The interesting thing in this particular case is that in order to be offended by the item, one would actually need to buy it and wear it. Which one would have thought would be an impossible set of circumstances.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I do agree to a certain extent. I mean slogans have been put on T shirts for decades designed to shock and to make people think. So who cares?

The interesting thing in this particular case is that in order to be offended by the item, one would actually need to buy it and wear it. Which one would have thought would be an impossible set of circumstances.

..yeah I do understand that it would have to be purchased and worn for someone to be able to put a negative race related connotation to it...but that to me is one of the big things about it in that it’s starting to feel inclusive then and excluding some for their race.../...that then becomes prejudice which laws are there to protect...for me, it’s not so much the advertisement but more That it’s a garment that shouldn’t have been produced in the first place because it could rule out a whole section of society from purchasing it...and also obviously could cause offence...a black child should be able to wear the same garment as a white child without any negtive associations with their race...

...hmmm I have to say though I am a bit conflicted with the advertising of it though ..because I’m not sure whether that decision..to bring attention to it in the campaign etc..?....was something that was purposely done for this attention it’s getting..which to me does act as a mockery and starts to dilute racism so the best thing is to just let it be removed from the shelves but give it no more attention, which only feeds into the intention and gives exactly what was wanted and hoped for...I think I felt that stance with the Dove ad ...but then, is that right either...should we just ‘turn away’..from these decisions these large companies are making so frequently when it seems that everyone can see the obvious instantly...other than those decision makers who are actually employed to see... I mean back in the day there were very cruel and negative terms for children with mental disabilities and conditions...would it be felt acceptable for one of those terms to be now used on a garment which would exclude it from being worn by some children because of their disability...

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Great post?

Are you still deciding? ()

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I do agree to a certain extent. I mean slogans have been put on T shirts for decades designed to shock and to make people think. So who cares?

The interesting thing in this particular case is that in order to be offended by the item, one would actually need to buy it and wear it. Which one would have thought would be an impossible set of circumstances.

Very good points and something I wouldn't have thought of. See? This isn't something we would think about anymore if we're in the middle of being outraged. I suggest we as society takes 15 minute breaks in-between pitchforking sessions.

Maybe it doesn't help that we've stretched comedy/casual conversation in definition to include almost anything above and past the line. I can see that creating a perception of people not really taking these things seriously, but also aids in creating the overarching perception that, "we", the people condone --at least subjectively-- intolerance or ridicule of it's most disenfranchised subjects. So yeah this is a very casual example of that, but when comedians go too far, we tend to allow for the moving of the line in order to accommodate personal expression. And of course the further you move that line, the further up the "middleground" moves, so it allows for the precipice of misinterpretation.

It also doesn't help that most people are not too thrilled when certain subjects involves their sacred lamb. However, because we all disagree on what our sacred lambs, casual media casually cuts straight through all that and it creates a space where I think that scenarios can develop that create offense, intentionally or not. That then opens room for the argument that the intent to "harm" was a product of subconscious feelings and thus, our most outraged individuals demand that their sacred lambs to be coveted.

I try to be aware of this delineation, but it's impossible to be conscious of every single label/icon/symbol that could create the appearance of harm. I would not have thought of monkeys having to do with racism for blacks, but that's then that's something I'm not in a hurry to educate myself on as I don't want to accidentally make those associations in other incidents unintentionally. Kinda like how easy it was for India to be mis-gendered due to the constant conversation of whether she was really a she or a him (just to use as a far simpler example).

You know back in the day (omg the day), we would not be in such a rush to put out material that would/could cause offense. So when someone made a poster or put something up that was clearly out of those boundaries, it was much easier to say "Oh well that was definitely intentional because they surely know better". Now it's hard to see where exactly the offense is actually being created as it could just simply be someone elses personal interpretation since the line has shifted so much through casual discourse.

Anyway not too fond of going back to that era, but it's an interesting point you brought up and it got me thinking in that territory.


Kinda nuts they have to go to this extent. Yet another reason to online shop maybe?
H&M closes all its stores in South Africa after protests
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/13/news...ica/index.html

[Northern Monkey]

It deffo comes across as racist putting a black kid in it.I do remember back at primary school many moons ago you’d sometimes hear the black kids called monkeys.

I don’t think they need to pull the top because obviously it’s up to the parents if they buy it for their kid but putting a black model in is asking for trouble.
Part of me thinks it was a deliberate publicity stunt.

[user104658]

Perhaps the people actually involved in the photoshoot were having a long day and simply didn't think, I doubt the picture was originally posed with any intent, HOWEVER from there on its exactly the same as the Dove commercial;

There's no feasible way that this got all the way into a published ad without SOMEONE saying something - even if that's just "I know we don't mean anything by this but it's obviously going to cause problems", and yet they chose to proceed. That's where questions need to be asked if anywhere, in my opinion.

It can only be a grab for viral marketing. I'm pretty sure it's been proven at this point that the most important part of raising brand awareness and generating sales is simple exposure... And the content / slant of that exposure matters very little. Negative marketing that generates news stories (which are also FREE, unlike traditional advertising) is just as effective as if not more effevtive than a smaller, positive ad campaign.

You see similar with movies / games etc. quite often. If they gain notoriety they will make money... Doesn't matter if the content is actually trash.

Also, Trump.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps the people actually involved in the photoshoot were having a long day and simply didn't think, I doubt the picture was originally posed with any intent, HOWEVER from there on its exactly the same as the Dove commercial;

There's no feasible way that this got all the way into a published ad without SOMEONE saying something - even if that's just "I know we don't mean anything by this but it's obviously going to cause problems", and yet they chose to proceed. That's where questions need to be asked if anywhere, in my opinion.

It can only be a grab for viral marketing. I'm pretty sure it's been proven at this point that the most important part of raising brand awareness and generating sales is simple exposure... And the content / slant of that exposure matters very little. Negative marketing that generates news stories (which are also FREE, unlike traditional advertising) is just as effective as if not more effevtive than a smaller, positive ad campaign.

You see similar with movies / games etc. quite often. If they gain notoriety they will make money... Doesn't matter if the content is actually trash.

Also, Trump.

Maybe we should stop being complicit then with our outrage It's like a wood chipper...

But yeah, I'd say that backfired if it was intentional. I like to think there's always a 25-50% chance because that's just how the media generally works is to illicit strong reactions. But, if it was put together by an overseas employee for example, then they may have not had the idea in their head to see the problem. For example, this flub...

International advertising (wiki)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_advertising

7 International Marketing Campaigns That Failed to Translate
http://www.k-international.com/blog/...-to-translate/

I could see it now. Oh, Africa... I have an idea... they like jungles right? -_- The irony will be if the jackets are donated/liquidated, that they very possibly could end up in the hands of someone in a third world country someplace who would have no clue about the symbolism... I don't know, where else do material goods from bad ad campaigns go to die? Seems wasteful to just dispose of them outright unless they can reuse the material. (or maybe remove/cover the graphic)

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by arista

This was the one they removed from sale.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-weekn...child-11200833


The Man United Romelu Lukaku
did a photo shop version
shown on a TV News





Alot of Free Publicity?

He is just a footballer.

[Tom4784]

'He doesn't have a right to an opinion, he's just a footballer.'