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Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That is a more sensitive issue that would be approached with a whole different set of safeguarding techniques, you can't explain every scenario with stick people and tea analogies.

So if they can't cover the entire topic of Sex and Consent, maybe they should use a different analogy altogether?

Although IMO TS did a good job of extending the analogy to those more extreme examples, so the video could be longer.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So if they can't cover the entire topic of Sex and Consent, maybe they should use a different analogy altogether?

Why should they... Bullying is a generalised topic but you wouldn't tackle online or psychological bullying the same way as physical would you?

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why should they...

To highlight rape/bullying isn't just physical.
It might feed into the misconception that rape is merely literally forcing someone into sex by physically restraining or beating them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Bullying is a generalised topic but you wouldn't tackle online or psychological bullying the same way as physical would you?

No, but they would be included in the same topic when discussing "bullying".

Or it would be separated into "Physical" and "Psychological".

But like I said, I think the tea analogy was actually perfect IMO for explaining the verbal coercion and guilt-tripping aspects as it would highlight how ridiculous and obvious it is trying to force someone into something they simply don't want to do. I don't know why they left it out.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No, but they would be included in the same topic when discussing "bullying".

Or it would be separated into "Physical" and "Psychological".

But like I said, I think the tea analogy was actually perfect IMO for explaining the verbal coercion and guilt-tripping aspects as it would highlight how ridiculous and obvious it is trying to force someone into something they simply don't want to do. I don't know why they left it out.

I don't agree I think coercion has to be handled more sensitively.

Maru · 26-03-2018, 07:05 PM

Youtube video

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't agree I think coercion has to be handled more sensitively.

Rape is rape. If understanding comes from a silly cartoon of a stick man then it's great. Some of the very basic misunderstandings and misconceptions that come with complex emotional and physical crimes like rape are actually astounding. If it can be tackled by simple examples, then that's not a bad thing.

You can get into the details with them sensitively, but to highlight it and get everyone on the same page of understanding, it's a good method.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Rape is rape. If understanding comes from a silly cartoon of a stick man then it's great. Some of the very basic misunderstandings and misconceptions that come with complex emotional and physical crimes like rape are actually astounding. If it can be tackled by simple examples, then that's not a bad thing.

You can get into the details with them sensitively, but to highlight it and get everyone on the same page of understanding, it's a good method.

Is it?... Thanks for that.

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is it?... Thanks for that.

A petty quip rather than a response. Ok.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A petty quip rather than a response. Ok.

Is 'rape is rape' not a quip?

user104658 · 26-03-2018, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

explain every scenario with stick people and tea analogies.

No but that's a new Chat & Games thread if I ever heard one...

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 07:56 PM

chatphobic

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is 'rape is rape' not a quip?

No.

I was responding that rape in all its forms is still part of the same central topic and so will/should be covered in the same lesson. As I said earlier, it helps with misconceptions that rape is all "Strangers physically attacking you at night in a dark alley" and actual understand the broader topic of consent. Simple things like this help with that.

If you don't want to respond to that and just highlight three words to misconstrue as an insult that's your prerogative.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No.

I was responding that rape in all its forms is still part of the same central topic and so will/should be covered in the same lesson. As I said earlier, it helps with misconceptions that rape is all "Strangers physically attacking you at night in a dark alley" and actual understand the broader topic of consent. Simple things like this help with that.

If you don't want to respond to that and just highlight three words to misconstrue as an insult that's your prerogative.

You can't help patonising in every post, were you to stop that I might take you more seriously.

As I said like bullying it is part of a central topic, I don't agree it can be as I don't see the 'rape is rape' connection.
If like you say there are facets to it, rape is not rape....

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You can't help patonising in every post, were you to stop that I might take you more seriously.

As I said like bullying it is part of a central topic, I don't agree it can be as I don't see the 'rape is rape' connection.
If like you say there are facets to it, rape is not rape....

If you can't see it, why am I being accused of patronising you by trying to explain it?

Rape is rape. Whether physical force or emotional blackmail, it is rape. That's the whole point of the misconceptions being dealt with all at once and together. Discuss them. Rape isn't just from strangers in strange places but can happen in relationships in your own bedroom type of thing that a lot of people (especially young ones) simply won't comprehend. You see it in a lot of reactions to news stories when you get some people asking "How can it be rape? He's her husband" or "She led him on. She took him home from the club, how can she have wanted anything other than sex?" etc etc. So, there's valid reasons.

So, no, it's not/was not about you. It was directly related to my view on this discussion. Whether you take them seriously, I couldn't care less. I'm normally told not to quote you anyway so it doesn't matter to me that you take me seriously or otherwise.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

If you can't see it, why am I being accused of patronising you by trying to explain it?

Rape is rape. Whether physical force or emotional blackmail, it is rape. That's the whole point of the misconceptions being dealt with all at once and together. Discuss them. Rape isn't just from strangers in strange places but can happen in relationships in your own bedroom type of thing that a lot of people (especially young ones) simply won't comprehend. You see it in a lot of reactions to news stories when you get some people asking "How can it be rape? He's her husband" or "She led him on. She took him home from the club, how can she have wanted anything other than sex?" etc etc. So, there's valid reasons.

So, no, it's not/was not about you. It was directly related to my view on this discussion. Whether you take them seriously, I couldn't care less. I'm normally told not to quote you anyway so it doesn't matter to me that you take me seriously or otherwise.

Are you schooling me in rape?...

All the different situations in which rape could happen was my reasoning behind my position that rape is not rape.

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 09:21 PM

*makes a comment*

"Stop patronising me"

*explains comment*

"Are you schooling me?"

Laters Kizzy.

Kizzy · 26-03-2018, 09:33 PM

Why do you keep going on about strangers..... Do you think I'm not aware of these things?

Seeing as you're back to patronising yes let's end the discussion there.

Marsh. · 26-03-2018, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why do you keep going on about strangers..... Do you think I'm not aware of these things?

No, we're discussing how people are and can be educated about rape and the complexities around consent but if you're going to slice out isolated words and accuse me of "schooling" "patronising" or, god forbid, "Mansplaining" you then there's not much point.