[Maru]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What do you know and think about this man and or myth?

I think if he is/was real, he would have looked better than an NPC from Oblivion... thems my thoughts.

[thesheriff443]

The bible is a story book before television, some went of and chose cats as gods.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The bible is a story book before television, some went of and chose cats as gods.

As is the Koran and look at the trouble that is still causing in this day and age!

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As is the Koran and look at the trouble that is still causing in this day and age!

Anyone who abuses religion with their own twisted ideas will always cause trouble , it's the people that are the problem not the religion itself

I also think it's disrespectful when people rip Religion to pieces and mock it ,fair enough everyone has different views and a laugh and a giggle is one thing . But it's not nice to be rude about others beliefs even if you don't understand it .

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Anyone who abuses religion with their own twisted ideas will always cause trouble , it's the people that are the problem not the religion itself

I also think it's disrespectful when people rip Religion to pieces and mock it ,fair enough everyone has different views and a laugh and a giggle is one thing . But it's not nice to be rude about others beliefs even if you don't understand it .

Have you read the comments about Jesus and Christianity and you pass no comments but as soon as there is a negative comment on the Koran you object - rather one-dided don’t you think! You can’t object to criticism of one religion and not the rest and expect it to be relevant.

Fact is one particular religion is causing more problems in the world today than any other! It may be some people’s interpretation of the words to suit in some cases but in others the words speak for themselves.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Have you read the comments about Jesus and Christianity and you pass no comments but as soon as there is a negative comment on the Koran you object - rather one-dided don’t you think! You can’t object to criticism of one religion and not the rest and expect it to be relevant.

Fact is one particular religion is causing more problems in the world today than any other! It may be some people’s interpretation of the words to suit in some cases but in others the words speak for themselves.

What the hell are you talking about ??? , I'm talking about Religion in general it's not because of the Quran you mentioned .

And you obviously have no idea on my previous posts , I've made comments on Christianity/ Catholism .

All I'm saying is it's people who abuse religion , the average person with faith & religion is peaceful and they don't push any beliefs on people .

I don't believe in reincarnation but I don't mock Buddhism .

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Anyone who abuses religion with their own twisted ideas will always cause trouble , it's the people that are the problem not the religion itself

I also think it's disrespectful when people rip Religion to pieces and mock it ,fair enough everyone has different views and a laugh and a giggle is one thing . But it's not nice to be rude about others beliefs even if you don't understand it .

"fair enough everyone has different views"

this is a problematic line

Its not up for debate that gods exist and people can walk on water and heal sick people by mind power

People believe stuff like that because their parents brainwashed them as they were brainwashed. Its not based on evidence or fact its nothing more than superstition

just as people dont walk under ladders, dont break mirrors, dont put shoes on a table, touch wood etc

and indeed all of that is fine if its personal but not in schools, not in government.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"fair enough everyone has different views"

this is a problematic line

Its not up for debate that gods exist and people can walk on water and heal sick people by mind power

People believe stuff like that because their parents brainwashed them as they were brainwashed. Its not based on evidence or fact its nothing more than superstition

just as people dont walk under ladders, dont break mirrors, dont put shoes on a table, touch wood etc

and indeed all of that is fine if its personal but not in schools, not in government.

I agree LT. People can believe in what they want but it should never be via indoctrination or force. Unfortunately it often is. Religion and superstition are pretty much the same thing with people relying on some unknown force to protect them if they do/don’t do certain things. And one thing is for sure it holds back people and economies.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As is the Koran and look at the trouble that is still causing in this day and age!

It's easy for the West to feel superior, but we shouldn't really.
Islam is roughly 500 years younger than Christianity. Christianity went persecuting and killing others for ages (Inquisition, crusades, converting whole nations by sword in Eastern Europe, Africa and in the New World, etc etc).
We grew out of that and religious wars and so will Islam one day.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It's easy for the West to feel superior, but we shouldn't really.
Islam is roughly 500 years younger than Christianity. Christianity went persecuting and killing others for ages (Inquisition, crusades, converting whole nations by sword in Eastern Europe, Africa and in the New World, etc etc).
We grew out of that and religious wars and so will Islam one day.

Which fool taught you that?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

Which fool taught you that?

Nobody, it's my own observation. So thank you for the compliment, Alf!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It's easy for the West to feel superior, but we shouldn't really.
Islam is roughly 500 years younger than Christianity. Christianity went persecuting and killing others for ages (Inquisition, crusades, converting whole nations by sword in Eastern Europe, Africa and in the New World, etc etc).
We grew out of that and religious wars and so will Islam one day.

That may be twosugars but the world in general has moved on. People are more educated than ever before and certain practices can’t be tolerated for the next 500 years to allow people to ‘catch up’. People know better now and anyone living in the West or any country that has communication with the rest of the world is exposed to that.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That may be twosugars but the world in general has moved on. People are more educated than ever before and certain practices can’t be tolerated for the next 500 years to allow people to ‘catch up’. People know better now and anyone living in the West or any country that has communication with the rest of the world is exposed to that.

You have a point. But I wonder if that makes much difference. As we see it probably doesn't, so something else could be at play. Maybe some religions (those who take a dim view of non-believers in at least some of their scriptures) have to go through a violent period? We know demagogues will use religious justification wherever then can find it. Christianity has largely gone through that already, although some pockets of that intolerance still remain even if largely not violent. Maybe Islam simply has to go through that all the way too. I.e every interpretation that lends itself to violence used up and rendered futile? Just a thought.

[user104658]

Me and my daughter came up with a theory on this earlier.

We were wondering, WHY would there be critically ill / crippled humans in the world of Harry Potter, if wizards could easily just go around hospitals helping? At the very least - we mused - they'd be able to heal something like a broken spine / paralysis no problem. Why would they let so many suffer? Surely at least one would say "screw the secret!" and help?

And then it hit us.

Jesus was a wizard. Thousands of years ago, he was the one who broke ranks and wanted to help humans. But then not only did they crucify him for it - but a huge cult built up around him, worshipping him, and thousand of years later billions of muggles STILL worship him, and there have been countless wars fought in his name with untold devastation.

And that is why wizards made a sacred pact to never meddle in the Muggle world. That's why no wizard will cure a dying human child, even though they could. The price was just too high .

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Me and my daughter came up with a theory on this earlier.

We were wondering, WHY would there be critically ill / crippled humans in the world of Harry Potter, if wizards could easily just go around hospitals helping? At the very least - we mused - they'd be able to heal something like a broken spine / paralysis no problem. Why would they let so many suffer? Surely at least one would say "screw the secret!" and help?

And then it hit us.

Jesus was a wizard. Thousands of years ago, he was the one who broke ranks and wanted to help humans. But then not only did they crucify him for it - but a huge cult built up around him, worshipping him, and thousand of years later billions of muggles STILL worship him, and there have been countless wars fought in his name with untold devastation.

And that is why wizards made a sacred pact to never meddle in the Muggle world. That's why no wizard will cure a dying human child, even though they could. The price was just too high .

Good theory

[user104658]

The main problem I have with religion is the expectation that we should all "play along". I mean if someone is saying... Just be polite / respectful and say nothing at all, that's totally fine in most situations. During the course of open debate, however, what I simply cannot do is sit there pretending that religious belief is in ANY way based in logic, reason or evidence. I can't pretend that it's actually feasible that one of these hundreds of religions - which, yes, ALL are cults that rely entirely on indoctrination and emotional manipulation - has actually stumbled upon universal truth through sheer coincidence. No. The chances that any religion is "correct" or even anywhere in the ballpark of being correct are so infinitesimally small that they are effectively zero.

Anyone who finds that "offensive", should steer well clear of religious debate, and stick with those who will happily coddle or reinforce fanciful beliefs on the basis that "it's OK if it keeps people happy".

[Twosugars]

I was brought up Catholic, didn't do me any harm. Still have fondness for it. Best religion when it comes to rituals and mysticism. And the churches, all the old churches...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I was brought up Catholic, didn't do me any harm. Still have fondness for it. Best religion when it comes to rituals and mysticism. And the churches, all the old churches...

you were one of the lucky ones who were not horribly sexually abused

its not a great thing to celebrate

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you were one of the lucky ones who were not horribly sexually abused

its not a great thing to celebrate

ehm, I was as it happens. But no lasting harm was done and rather not talk about the details.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

ehm, I was as it happens. But no lasting harm was done and rather not talk about the details.

welcome to religion

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

welcome to religion

could have happened in other places

need to distinquish between religion and the church as an institution

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

welcome to religion

Corruption & abuse happens in all types of places ,once again you're mixing up religion with the people that are the problem

If you read a news article about a teacher abusing his pupil , are you going to bad-mouth all schools & education and say it no good and that we should scrap it all ?? .

[Withano]

This thread took a turn from interesting to SD&N-ey real fast

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Withano

This thread took a turn from interesting to SD&N-ey real fast

it's not that bad

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

it's not that bad

I mean, it is. The OP raises an interesting question, and nobody has been close to discussing that for 50-odd posts. Shame really.