[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh Jesus Christ, it gets worse.

THEY. ARE. DETAINED. THEY. ARE. IN. THE. US'S. CUSTODY. THEY CAN'T. LEAVE. UNTIL. THEY. ARE. RELEASED.

Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas) on Monday said that migrant children at a facility in Texas are “free to leave at any time”.

“There’s not a lock on the door,” the lawmaker said. “Any child is free to leave at any time."

The Texas Republican defended conditions at the Trump administration’s facilities and said his experience was not as horrific as media reports claimed.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They're not imprisoned, they're free to leave at any time.

Oliver, do you know what 'detained' means?

[Oliver_W]

+ of course they're not concentration camps, what is AOC drivelling about?

People aren't being imprisoned for their ethnicity, people attempting to cross the border are being held for processing; they're not being starved of resources as a punishment or because they're being killed soon, there's just so many trying to break in that there it's hard to meet the demand.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

+ of course they're not concentration camps, what is AOC drivelling about?

People aren't being imprisoned for their ethnicity, people attempting to cross the border are being held for processing; they're not being starved of resources as a punishment or because they're being killed soon, there's just so many trying to break in that there it's hard to meet the demand.

You're on to a different subject now. Where did you find out that they were free to leave?

[GiRTh]

So much outrage at them being called concentration camps but so little outrage for what is going on.

US border: Sixth death of migrant child in custody

[Mokka]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wayfair...ntion-centers/

Loving the solidarity of the wayfair employees today. Massive walk out to protest the selling of Wayfair furniture to create another detention facility.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Mokka

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wayfair...ntion-centers/

Loving the solidarity of the wayfair employees today. Massive walk out to protest the selling of Wayfair furniture to create another detention facility.

What's the problem here? I thought the detention centres needed facilities?

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What's the problem here? I thought the detention centres needed facilities?

They need shutting down... not building another one

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What's the problem here? I thought the detention centres needed facilities?

What are you on about? I dont think you've fully grasped this story so go and have a re-read.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Mokka

They need shutting down... not building another one

They're needed as the migrants keep coming. If there were fewer migrants, another one wouldn't need to be built.

Originally Posted by GiRTh

What are you on about? I dont think you've fully grasped this story so go and have a re-read.

Some employees took the day off work because they didn't like the fact their employer carried out a transaction, what's not to get?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Some employees took the day off work because they didn't like the fact their employer carried out a transaction, what's not to get?

No you dont quite get the whole thing and thus this discussion is infuriating.

Lets go back to where you sourced that they were free to leave and now we're here and you're questioning the facilities in the facilities. I give up. You've officially beaten me.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They're needed as the migrants keep coming. If there were fewer migrants, another one wouldn't need to be built.


Some employees took the day off work because they didn't like the fact their employer carried out a transaction, what's not to get?

They aren't processing and turning people, or children, away... they are holding them indefinitely... or until death. That isn't something to support or encourage. I wouldn't want my paycheck to come from people willingly putting children in danger leading to their deaths.

[GiRTh]

Youtube video

[Ammi]

...it’ll be interesting to see if the images of the bodies of Oscar Alberto Martínez and his 23-month old daughter Angie Valeria lying face down and lifeless in the Rio Grande ...their heads together and wrapped in a black T-shirt... and her arm reaching out to her father in their last moments...will have any impact in this whole despicable inhumane situation...human beings being treated as if they’re worthless ...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’ll be interesting to see if the images of the bodies of Oscar Alberto Martínez and his 23-month old daughter Angie Valeria lying face down and lifeless in the Rio Grande ...their heads together and wrapped in a black T-shirt... and her arm reaching out to her father in their last moments...will have any impact in this whole despicable inhumane situation...human beings being treated as if they’re worthless ...

Sadly Ammi, I doubt it. The people who are OK with these camps won't bat an eyelid.

[Livia]

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

I agree with you in a sense but I would still argue that the extremity and the horror of the usage of concentration camps by Nazi Germany is more semantically appropriate to be labelled as "the Holocaust" more than a complete threshold over the concept of concentration camps itself. Whilst even the most shallow and uninformed observer of WW2 history would associate "concentration camps" with "the deaths of 6m+ Jews" it is still a grotesque situation for the US to find themselves in, especially with the knowledge and supposed wisdom of such horrific treatments of prisoners in the past.

Naturally it's a phrasing that is intended to provoke outrage and disgust but having seen photographs of some of their conditions I don't think that it's really being done falsely or with the intention of misleading people.

But to me it's a little like someone arguing that someone who's killed 10 people shouldn't be called a mass murderer because Pol Pot killed 2 million or so Cambodians. We don't need to witness the literal worst ever example of a phenomenon to label it that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I agree with you in a sense but I would still argue that the extremity and the horror of the usage of concentration camps by Nazi Germany is more semantically appropriate to be labelled as "the Holocaust" more than a complete threshold over the concept of concentration camps itself. Whilst even the most shallow and uninformed observer of WW2 history would associate "concentration camps" with "the deaths of 6m+ Jews" it is still a grotesque situation for the US to find themselves in, especially with the knowledge and supposed wisdom of such horrific treatments of prisoners in the past.

Naturally it's a phrasing that is intended to provoke outrage and disgust but having seen photographs of some of their conditions I don't think that it's really being done falsely or with the intention of misleading people.

But to me it's a little like someone arguing that someone who's killed 10 people shouldn't be called a mass murderer because Pol Pot killed 2 million or so Cambodians. We don't need to witness the literal worst ever example of a phenomenon to label it that.

I agree with you too, in a sense. I wouldn't want to minimise what the internees in the USA are going through. It was the provocative use of the word. And yes, we have the Holocaust. And most people remember the six million Jews, but Jews make up only about a third of the total deaths during the Holocaust. I don't think it was entirely my faith made me object to the word although obviously part of it.

Good post though.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Livia

And most people remember the six million Jews, but Jews make up only about a third of the total deaths during the Holocaust.

Is that true? I always assumed it was a 90-95% case, but I guess political opponents and other races / non-Jewish eastern Europeans would've been a large portion too.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Is that true? I always assumed it was a 90-95% case, but I guess political opponents and other races / non-Jewish eastern Europeans would've been a large portion too.

Maybe Jews make up slightly more than a third... but much less than half.

Spoiler:

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. As I said before, concentration camps existed before WW2 and we shouldn't be hesitant to call out other instances of concentration camps being used just because of the past, the horrors of the past should encourage us to speak out against it, in fact. After all, when the Nazi concentration camps were first introduced, they weren't death camps, that is what they became when they went unchallenged.

Call them what they are, concentration camps and shame the administration for it. Being hesitant to say what they are only allows them to go unchallenged.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

Yeah as AOC is American she was probably using the term from an American perspective rather than the European one. To the Americans it probably doesn't bring to mind the same images.

[thesheriff443]

Humans have the concentration span of a fish with subjects like this, read it move on to the next page, then it’s what am I having for tea?.

We just chew the fat on here, don’t matter how informed you are, how disgusted you, it will still be happening.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Humans have the concentration span of a fish with subjects like this, read it move on to the next page, then it’s what am I having for tea?.

We just chew the fat on here, don’t matter how informed you are, how disgusted you, it will still be happening.

True buy what can you do

[thesheriff443]

We spend hundreds of thousands keeping a murderer alive but we let innocent kids die of starvation.