[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The authorities seem to be on the right lines. Do you doubt the source is in that house or something?

My main issue is that they’re not grabbing up people in the street.

I presume they arrested on the IP address? so it probably was him as a more savvy internet user might have covered his tracks? but it hasn't been confirmed as yet so I don't really see what the issue is with waiting for the full story

[GiRTh]

'Full story'

A player was racially abused and they arrested the person responsible for the message or responsible for the PC that sent the message. What full story? They wouldn’t have made an arrest if they were not sure of those facts?

Tis kid maybe experiencing terrible abuse but regarding the facts of the case, the facts are quite clear cut.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

'Full story'

A player was racially abused and they arrested the person responsible for the message or responsible for the PC that sent the message. What full story? They wouldn’t have made an arrest if they were not sure of those facts?

Tis kid maybe experiencing terrible abuse but regarding the facts of the case, the facts are quite clear cut.

so the police don't arrest white people in error now

Yes the message came from that IP address, a 12 year old has been arrested, but not charged, why are you so keen to move on? if he was a 30 year old living on his own I would say case closed, but its not quite that is it?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Cherie

so the police don't arrest white people in error now

Yes the message came from that IP address, a 12 year old has been arrested, but not charged, why are you so keen to move on? if he was a 30 year old living on his own I would say case closed, but its not quite that is it?

WHat on earth are you talking about?

Do you have other facts as you're already speculating? They arrested him so for now the case is progressing

[AnnieK]

I would imagine they have a pretty strong case to believe it was the child. If they have discovered the messages were sent from an IP at that house their first line of enquiry would have been with the person who pays the bill for the internet....or they have further investigated and found it to have been sent from a particular device....possibly phone / computer belonging to the child.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

WHat on earth are you talking about?

Do you have other facts as you're already speculating? They arrested him so for now the case is progressing

That it exactly what I am saying and which you took great issue with to begin with, he has not been charged so like anyone else arrested, he is innocent until proven otherwise, so it seems we have come full circle

I am not speculating about anything I was just offering up scenarios as to why it might not be as cut and dried as you were originally suggesting.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I would imagine they have a pretty strong case to believe it was the child. If they have discovered the messages were sent from an IP at that house their first line of enquiry would have been with the person who pays the bill for the internet....or they have further investigated and found it to have been sent from a particular device....possibly phone / computer belonging to the child.

They arrested the wrong person initially in the case where the PC was killed during a quad bike theft so its not unknown for the police to knee jerk

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

That it exactly what I am saying and which you took great issue with to begin with, he has not been charged so like anyone else arrested, he is innocent until proven otherwise, so it seems we have come full circle

I am not speculating about anything I was just offering up scenarios as to why it might not be as cut and dried as you were originally suggesting.

If he’s' innocent then he'll have his day in court and can tell the judge how even though the Ip matches his it wasnt him. Might be a difficult one to sell IMO.

You have not offered any scenarios, sorry?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Cherie

They arrested the wrong person initially in the case where the PC was killed during a quad bike theft so its not unknown for the police to knee jerk

They do that dont they.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

They do that dont they.

Yes they do?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

If he’s' innocent then he'll have his day in court and can tell the judge how even though the Ip matches his it wasnt him. Might be a difficult one to sell IMO.

You have not offered any scenarios, sorry?

Yes I did, if it were an adult living on their own there wouldn't be any further questions to be asked

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

Yes I did, if it were an adult living on their own there wouldn't be any further questions to be asked

Regarding the case, what questions do you think need to be asked?

Has it occured to you that the kid might be a twat and his family twats too. ? Seems a likely scenario to me.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I wasn’t ‘fine’ with it at all ...I just wasn’t having a hysterical reaction, same here

Btw I don’t have an issue with him being arrested, however in the pervious case, you thought the police were heavy handed, even though someone was stabbed, now an arrest is perfectly fine? I will wait for the full story before. I fully judge him, he could have special needs or be easily influenced by others or he could be a horrible twat from a horrible family we don’t know enough yet

Have you considered they may have arrested the wrong family member Girth?

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Regarding the case, what questions do you think need to be asked?





Has it occured to you that the kid might be a twat and his family twats too. ? Seems a likely scenario to me.

why don't you read what I post, rather than what you think I post

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Cherie

why don't you read what I post, rather than what you think I post

I know what you posted. I always know but often find it confusing.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Cherie

They arrested the wrong person initially in the case where the PC was killed during a quad bike theft so its not unknown for the police to knee jerk

They are known for knee jerk reactions, I'm not doubting that. What I meant though was they wouldn't have got the ip address and immediately thought that the 12 year old was responsible. They must either have had evidence, confession or the parent's telling them it was the 12 year old to make the arrest surely? If my IP pinged a criminal offense with the police I assume as the bill.payer I would have to prove it wasn't me committing the crime initially rather than them come in and instinctively decide it was the kid in the house.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

They are known for knee jerk reactions, I'm not doubting that. What I meant though was they wouldn't have got the ip address and immediately thought that the 12 year old was responsible. They must either have had evidence, confession or the parent's telling them it was the 12 year old to make the arrest surely? If my IP pinged a criminal offense with the police I assume as the bill.payer I would have to prove it wasn't me committing the crime initially rather than them come in and instinctively decide it was the kid in the house.

Or maybe they blamed the kid thinking that he wouldn't get in trouble over it hhmmmm They'd be right scumbags to do that though (but when you look at what was sent to that football player, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that they are)

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Or maybe they blamed the kid thinking that he wouldn't get in trouble over it hhmmmm They'd be right scumbags to do that though (but when you look at what was sent to that football player, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that they are)

It's a good point because as has been said, a 12 year old doesn't start posting racist abuse without being raised with that attitude (or at least by people who don't care enough to identify and address attitudes they're getting elsewhere, if it's coming from a friendship group). That being the case, I'd suggest it's perfectly plausible that the comments were posted by an adult and blamed on the 12 year old because the consequences are less likely to be severe (criminal charges, loss of employment etc.)

Either way, even assuming they did come from him, I personally think it's a stretch too far to brand a 12 year old "a racist" and to take any action other than an attempt at education. 12 ffs. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing or saying, it's becoming increasingly common to project adult motivations on kids these days and it's really troubling. Again, the -only- time it's appropriate to take further legal action against a child is when physical violence is involved.

Politicised winky-faces and whataboutery in a case involving a child is in very poor taste, is all I'll say. But hey, it's 2020.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's a good point because as has been said, a 12 year old doesn't start posting racist abuse without being raised with that attitude (or at least by people who don't care enough to identify and address attitudes they're getting elsewhere, if it's coming from a friendship group). That being the case, I'd suggest it's perfectly plausible that the comments were posted by an adult and blamed on the 12 year old because the consequences are less likely to be severe (criminal charges, loss of employment etc.)

Either way, even assuming they did come from him, I personally think it's a stretch too far to brand a 12 year old "a racist" and to take any action other than an attempt at education. 12 ffs. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing or saying, it's becoming increasingly common to project adult motivations on kids these days and it's really troubling. Again, the -only- time it's appropriate to take further legal action against a child is when physical violence is involved.

Politicised winky-faces and whataboutery in a case involving a child is in very poor taste, is all I'll say. But hey, it's 2020.

Yeah, I think a "re-education" type programme would be most appropriate although I'm not sure how successful that would be either if he's learning this stuff from his parents

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I know what you posted. I always know but often find it confusing.

Do you? I thought it was pretty plain myself but whatever. Maybe I'm a bit too thick to transfer my thoughts adequately, I am Irish after all

[Nicky91]

racist behaviour should not be tolerated, no matter what age

however i would not make it a jail sentence, given it regards a 12 yr old here, you can still try to educate this kid on how wrong racism is

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, I think a "re-education" type programme would be most appropriate although I'm not sure how successful that would be either if he's learning this stuff from his parents

My thoughts are that a 12 year old is very likely to be an echo chamber of their parents and friends, and while those attitudes CAN follow them for life if they're not getting alternate input, it's far from too late. Before about 14 they're simply not neurologically capable of any real introspection at all. Plenty of adults look back on their attitudes from childhood/teens and are gobsmacked. The main issue with treating it harshly/shaming is that it doesn't usually "nip it in the bud" at all - it compounds and cements it. That's true even in adults, but if it happens at that age it's likely to be set in stone.

[GiRTh]

Lots of comments regarding re-education. Would that be for just the child or the whole family, as we seem to have a consensus that this child may not be fully responsible. If the attitudes are so ingrained in the child then how would that help if they are still growing up in a toxic environment?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Do you? I thought it was pretty plain myself but whatever. Maybe I'm a bit too thick to transfer my thoughts adequately, I am Irish after all

Its not plain at all. Hence my confusion.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Lots of comments regarding re-education. Would that be for just the child or the whole family, as we seem to have a consensus that this child may not be fully responsible. If the attitudes are so ingrained in the child then how would that help if they are still growing up in a toxic environment?

Yeah that's what I was saying, the kid is 12, it's more than likely that he got those attitudes from his family and imo as he's 12 the parents should be responsible for him and so should also be looked at as to why he's not being supervised online and why he has those views in the first place, he didn't just wake up one morning and decide he's a racist, that's learned from somewhere

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah that's what I was saying, the kid is 12, it's more than likely that he got those attitudes from his family and imo as he's 12 the parents should be responsible for him and so should also be looked at as to why he's not being supervised online and why he has those views in the first place, he didn't just wake up one morning and decide he's a racist, that's learned from somewhere

And my point is re-education for the whole family will never happen or be met with a great deal of resistance. Cant see his family saying 'Yeah we're horribly racist but we're gonna stop now we've been caught.

The child has a few decisions to make in the next few years so good luck to him but for this incident we must talk about more than re-education