[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get an abortion if that what she chooses to do? Or are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

That's cool bring up the heavy abortion argument, but we all know many women out there will emotionally still be affected by it ,even if they feel it was the right decision. There is no way they will just carry on & not psychologically feel a certain type of way , because again it's a life changing decision.

And you know very well there's people against abortion , I personally think it's a woman's choice however they could also let the child be adopted. But I understand that if a woman has been raped , then the pregnancy will be far too traumatic to go through on top of that.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get an abortion if that what she chooses to do? Or are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

I'm not a woman so it's not really my place to really say anything.

But if you force my hand, I prefer children be put up for adoption if the Mother doesn't want the child.

[Niamh.]

PS "lifestyles I don't agree with" I couldn't care less what people do with their lives as long as it doesn't clash with other peoples rights or it harms children

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

PS "lifestyles I don't agree with" I couldn't care less what people do with their lives as long as it doesn't clash with other peoples rights or it harms children

Exactly
Plus why can't a 16 year old wait another 2 years ?, If they're 100% sure they want to transition then what's another 2 years. In that time they should be diagnosed as having 'gender dysphoria ' , and they could experiment & actually see if they want to permanently live as the opposite sex . But they shouldn't go down the medically route until 18 . This is a huge decision after all.

[Cherie]

I couldnt care less about how people live their lives, why do you think anyone cares what consenting adults get up to... unless of course if it impinges on hard fought rights

[Liam-]

You’re not allowed to have the sex change operation if you’re under 18 anyway, unless you go to one of these dodgy places that has no rules for things like that

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You’re not allowed to have the sex change operation if you’re under 18 anyway, unless you go to one of these dodgy places that has no rules for things like that

But we both know that there are extremist groups trying to lower the age of when the operation can be performed.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

But we both know that there are extremist groups trying to lower the age of when the operation can be performed.

Are there? I haven’t seen anyone advocate for the surgery age being dropped, but let’s say it was dropped to 16, so what? You’re legally allowed to consent to surgeries at that age and nobody is just given a sex change operation at the drop of a hat, it takes years of therapy and consultations to make sure someone is truly ready for it, it’s not like going to the apple shop and buying a phone like people pretend it is to push their agenda

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Are there? I haven’t seen anyone advocate for the surgery age being dropped, but let’s say it was dropped to 16, so what? You’re legally allowed to consent to surgeries at that age and nobody is just given a sex change operation at the drop of a hat, it takes years of therapy and consultations to make sure someone is truly ready for it, it’s not like going to the apple shop and buying a phone like people pretend it is to push their agenda

How do you feel about kids aged 5 to 12 being called 'Transgender' ? ,When they're still children? . I don't know about you ..but I think most children that age want to be a marvel superhero or pepper pig or something , they're not thinking about being born as the wrong gender.

As for the 16 being legal age , it's different for a 16 year old to say they feel like a different gender, than to physically go through hormones and surgery. Don't you understand that it's a life altering thing? . I still think a 16 year old should wait till they're 18 before fully transitioning.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

How do you feel about kids aged 5 to 12 being called 'Transgender' ? ,When they're still children? . I don't know about you ..but I think most children that age want to be a marvel superhero or pepper pig or something , they're not thinking about being born as the wrong gender.

As for the 16 being legal age , it's different for a 16 year old to say they feel like a different gender, than to physically go through hormones and surgery. Don't you understand that it's a life altering thing? . I still think a 16 year old should wait till they're 18 before fully transitioning.

Well you’ve just answered your own question there haven’t you ‘most children aren’t thinking about being born as the wrong gender’ there are some children who do feel the affects or being transgender that young, how do I feel about them being called transgender? I’m not sure, it could be a bit early to stick a definitive label on it, do I think it’s any more weird than young children being called things like ‘future lady killer’ or heartbreakers? Or people saying that kids will have to be beating people off with a stick when they’re older? That’s a lot weirder and is blatant sexualising it’s children, but the majority of people don’t seem to have a problem with that.

Of course it’s a life altering thing, that’s the whole point and as long as someone is legal age to consent to a surgery and medication and they fully understand the risks and the benefits and all potential outcomes it’s not up to anybody else to tell them what they can and can’t do with their bodies, I thought we were against policing people’s autonomy?

[Liam-]

You’re not allowed to have the sex change operation if you’re under 18 anyway, unless you go to one of these dodgy places that has no rules for things like that

[bots]

16 is the age of consent in the UK, that's a legal entitlement, so saying someone should be 18 to consent is legally wrong and an infringement on an individuals rights

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

16 is the age of consent in the UK, that's a legal entitlement, so saying someone should be 18 to consent is legally wrong and an infringement on an individuals rights

That’s what it all boils down to though, there are people involved in the campaign that don’t want trans people to have rights and the opportunity to be who they are, it’s why the goalposts are constantly shifted in the argument, because nothing will ever be good enough for them until trans people are banned from society all together

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s what it all boils down to though, there are people involved in the campaign that don’t want trans people to have rights and the opportunity to be who they are, it’s why the goalposts are constantly shifted in the argument, because nothing will ever be good enough for them until trans people are banned from society all together

That is certainly not my agenda.

I know there are people that have that particular agenda, but for me I just feel like you have to 100% know that you're Transgender, and for me the older the better in that sense.

Speaking for myself I would never support the Trans community being banished from society.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

16 is the age of consent in the UK, that's a legal entitlement, so saying someone should be 18 to consent is legally wrong and an infringement on an individuals rights

I don’t believe 16 is the age of consent medically as patients are still classed as a child and put in a children’s ward up to age 18

[Oliver_W]

We seem to have drifted away from the point - that too much legal and social recognition of trans identities erodes women's rights. Whether or not kids should take pointless medications is a different discussion.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

We seem to have drifted away from the point - that too much legal and social recognition of trans identities erodes women's rights. Whether or not kids should take pointless medications is a different discussion.

That is definitely a tricky debate because whilst I agree with you that women's rights need to be upheld, we also can't infringe upon Trans rights either.

Tbh I really don't have the answers to solve that particular issue, but tbh I doubt that our Politicians necessarily do either.

And to Liam, I do apologize btw, I shouldn't have been calling you "self-righteous" and in general getting too worked up over this discussion.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That is definitely a tricky debate because whilst I agree with you that women's rights need to be upheld, we also can't infringe upon Trans rights either.

Transpeople and women should both have the same rights to single sex spaces, which would mean transwomen going with the other males half the population are women, while like half of a percentage of people are transwomen ... Who should be given priority?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Transpeople and women should both have the same rights to single sex spaces, which would mean transwomen going with the other males half the population are women, while like half of a percentage of people are transwomen ... Who should be given priority?

The issue isn't Trans women sharing women's spaces, I'm Pretty sure a few of us women have already shared public bathrooms etc with them . The issue is disgusting predators taking advantage of this, the average trans woman or even trans man will most likely be in & out a space without you even noticing .

I doubt they'd want to draw attention to themselves,as they're just getting on with things.

But the problem is any idiot these days can put on an outfit & a wig and claim they're "trans". And we're meant to just say "ok that's great" .

This has been proven time and time again that these weirdos will hide behind the trans card ....to take advantage of the system. We're seeing it in prisons aswell, when sickos are being put in women's prisons and getting them pregnant!.

Some of these so called "trans women" aren't even registered as female and they've made very little effort to transition , they've literally just decided that's what they want to be identified as. There's no proper assessment or concerns for the safety of other women.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The issue isn't Trans women sharing women's spaces, I'm Pretty sure a few of us women have already shared public bathrooms etc with them . The issue is disgusting predators taking advantage of this, the average trans woman or even trans man will most likely be in & out a space without you even noticing .

I doubt they'd want to draw attention to themselves,as they're just getting on with things.

But the problem is any idiot these days can put on an outfit & a wig and claim they're "trans". And we're meant to just say "ok that's great" .

This has been proven time and time again that these weirdos will hide behind the trans card ....to take advantage of the system. We're seeing it in prisons aswell, when sickos are being put in women's prisons and getting them pregnant!.

Some of these so called "trans women" aren't even registered as female and they've made very little effort to transition , they've literally just decided that's what they want to be identified as. There's no proper assessment or concerns for the safety of other women.

Great post Goldie, Primark backtracking over communal changing rooms for all just shows how quickly the idea of getting into a changing room with women purely to harass them took off, yet we were told that would never happen TERF