[Vanessa]

26% ? That's not gonna happen, no matter how much they strike.
It's completely unreasonable.

[UserSince2005]

Doctors think they are so smart and deserve so much they are actually nothing. The contribute nothing to the economy yet want to take so much. Pay them just lightly more than the useless nurses please

[arista]

BBC News Text:
[Senior doctors have voted in favour
of a 48-hour walk out from 20 July,
just two days after the end of a planned
five-day strike by junior doctors.
The paper says the action will leave the
health service, able to provide only the most
urgent and emergency care and quotes Matthew Taylor,
chief executive of the NHS Confederation,
calling the situation
"uncharted territory for a post-pandemic NHS".]

[bots]

it's not like the government hasn't been warned and they have time to make them a sensible offer

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's not like the government hasn't been warned and they have time to make them a sensible offer

The whole thing is ****ed by both internal and external politics unfortunately. The NHS is done. There is one VAGUE chance of pulling out of the tailspin at the last moment, and that's if 1) Labour gets in at the next GE and 2) Labour gets back around the table very quickly and makes large-scale changes.

But I'm far from convinced that #1 will happen at all, and even if it does, I'm not convinced there will be a huge amount of movement on #2. Not quickly enough to matter, anyway.

[Oliver_W]

It's one of those situations in which it's easy to see both sodes - the 25%+ increase is technically a correction, and they've not been paid "properly" in ages; but it's hard to have sympathy for people on upwards of £90k who want to increase their pay by at least a quarter!

That would total a huge burden on the already overburdened NHS.

I think a lot of bottom-up changes need to be made tbh. Pissing money away on diversity lectures and paying for people to "transition" is a luxury, and shouldn't even be considered while there's a shortage of Beds and people are being underpaid.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's one of those situations in which it's easy to see both sodes - the 25%+ increase is technically a correction, and they've not been paid "properly" in ages; but it's hard to have sympathy for people on upwards of £90k who want to increase their pay by at least a quarter!

That would total a huge burden on the already overburdened NHS.

I think a lot of bottom-up changes need to be made tbh. Pissing money away on diversity lectures and paying for people to "transition" is a luxury, and shouldn't even be considered while there's a shortage of Beds and people are being underpaid.

You only need to take a look at the international pay standards (and no not just the US; other countries with socialised healthcare too) to see that both doctors and trained nurses in the UK are starting to lag way behind and the gap is increasing. So there are effectively two choices; we start paying these staff better, or we accept that the UK is not a first-world country capable of providing first-world healthcare.

And then exactly the same thing will happen as happens in developing nations; the staff who have any real skill/ability/talent pack their bags and move to countries that will pay them appropriately for their level of knowledge and skill, and we get left with the low-wage dregs.

Tories are already looking at shortening the length of healthcare education to funnel more staff through quicker. Competence levels will drop and people will die. There's no two ways about it.

Just pray you never get into a serious accident or develop a life-threatening or severe ongoing condition, I guess.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

You only need to take a look at the international pay standards (and no not just the US; other countries with socialised healthcare too) to see that both doctors and trained nurses in the UK are starting to lag way behind and the gap is increasing. So there are effectively two choices; we start paying these staff better, or we accept that the UK is not a first-world country capable of providing first-world healthcare.

And then exactly the same thing will happen as happens in developing nations; the staff who have any real skill/ability/talent pack their bags and move to countries that will pay them appropriately for their level of knowledge and skill, and we get left with the low-wage dregs.

Tories are already looking at shortening the length of healthcare education to funnel more staff through quicker. Competence levels will drop and people will die. There's no two ways about it.

Just pray you never get into a serious accident or develop a life-threatening or severe ongoing condition, I guess.

I wasn't making a case against their payrise at all. But it should be coupled with widespread changes as to how NHS money should be spent, with more priority given to front line staff.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wasn't making a case against their payrise at all. But it should be coupled with widespread changes as to how NHS money should be spent, with more priority given to front line staff.

I agree to an extent but I don't think the bulk of the problem actually lies in healthcare development/lecturing/"niche healthcare" (not to say there can't be other debates around those topics, just that it's not really the financial burden).

There are huge day-to-day inefficiencies in every type of service that add up to a lot more in terms of resource wastage than operating a diverse range of services.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I agree to an extent but I don't think the bulk of the problem actually lies in healthcare development/lecturing/"niche healthcare" (not to say there can't be other debates around those topics, just that it's not really the financial burden).

There are huge day-to-day inefficiencies in every type of service that add up to a lot more in terms of resource wastage than operating a diverse range of services.

I'd say both need to be considered.

[user104658]

Regardless as I said it's a separate debate; you could cut the entire thing but compared in scale to parts of the service like A&E / orthopaedics / stroke / cardiology it would be like finding a £2 coin down the back of the sofa and trying to use it to pay your rent for a year.

[Zizu]

I was chatting to a doctor’s receptionist last week .. discussing health issues , waiting lists etc ..

Anyways she was adamant that due to Covid where they hardly saw anyone face to face ..that doctors are now simply LAZY and do the bare minimum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

[arista]

Sky News Text:
[The news that the health secretary
has pledged to increase doctors' pay
if they call off their plans to strike]

[arista]

[arista]

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by arista

sunak

[user104658]

If the govt will get round the table with doctors for further pay negotiations when they flat out refused to with nurses and AHP's there's going to be NHS civil war. It will go down like a lead balloon.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by arista

Image of Angry Nurses
with a few Doctors


Live Debate Now on LBC


[Junior doctors, who are set to be
balloted on strike action in early January,
are demanding a pay rise of nothing less
than 26 per cent.]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ody-think.html


Talk of Emergency Care
halted from day 1


3 Days of Solid Strike being talked about
for Monday

It won’t make much difference.. there’s about a 2 to 3 weeks waiting time for ours


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[arista]