[MarkWaldorf]

Originally posted by Arneldo

Lets not forget Leona got a lot of downloads straight after the finale, and after Leon won his single wasn;t available for 2 days and even then it was in Albums and not singles because of iTunes mistake. If it wasn't for that, he would have go way more downloads.

True, but his CD sales were also down massively on Leona's. And if the same amount of people who downloaded Leona's song wanted Leon's, then I'm sure they would have downloaded it when it was finally released.

[Stu]

Originally posted by MarkChap©

...and that's your opinion.

Good argument. Indeed it is. And yours is yours.

[XxShortyxX]

Leon Jackson has nothing on Leona, she is by far a million times better then him, I wish him all the luck in the world, but he will never be as sucessful and sell millions of singles and Albums like Leona has.

[xDramatick]

I agree with Morpheus {like always =|}

I think she has an incredible voice.
I'm not gonna say the best, but she can defo sing.

However, a lot of her songs are really dull and like Morpheus said, uninspired+cliche.

I also think a lot of people are going against her because she doesn't write her own songs, which I'm sure she's perfectly capable of, and if she had, her album may not be so.. dry [IMO of course, no-one will agree with me but evs.]

[Shaun]

Agreed with Darenn and Morpheus really.

But she's still far more talented than these Reverend people.

[Matt10k]

I think he’s right for the most part. She has a good voice but her songs are bland in my opinion. Still, there’s enough people who love her so I’m sure she’s not too bothered.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Morpheus
She undoubtedly has an amazing voice , but when that voice is the centrepiece of what are mostly dumb , cliched , and incredibly uninspired pop songs. Yawn.

I agree with this. She has a great voice, looks fab and seems like a genuinely nice person...but her songs are rubbish (and yes, it's just my opinion, there's no right or wrong here).

I'd rather listen to Reverend and the Makers all day every day, than listen to Leona's CD a couple of times.

[Ruth]

Incidentally, record sales are rarely related to talent these days. There's loads of people having hit records who haven't got an ounce of talent, and there's so many genuinely talented acts around, who just can't get a break. Also, The Brit Awards are not a reflection of talent either.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Ruth
Incidentally, record sales are rarely related to talent these days.

Exactly. So no side can really give that as an argument to anything other than sale figures.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Ruth
Incidentally, record sales are rarely related to talent these days. There's loads of people having hit records who haven't got an ounce of talent, and there's so many genuinely talented acts around, who just can't get a break. Also, The Brit Awards are not a reflection of talent either.

But how do you define talent? Isn't it all just someones opinion?

[Stu]

Originally posted by Matt10k

But how do you define talent? Isn't it all just someones opinion?

Its the majority opinion that becomes the general opinion of the masses. The majority opinion says The Fast Food Rockers were talentless. Opinion still stands but im not one to argue with that because they ARE untalented. Majority opinion rightfully and succesfully confirmed their lack of talent.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Morpheus

Its the majority opinion that becomes the general opinion of the masses. The majority opinion says The Fast Food Rockers were talentless. Opinion still stands but Im not one to argue with that because they ARE untalented. Majority opinion rightfully and succesfully confirmed their lack of talent.

If talent is defined merely by what the majority calls talented, then leona and the others on the brits ARE talented because they are the most popular acts in the country.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Matt10k

If talent is defined merely by what the majority calls talented, then leona and the others on the brits ARE talented because they are the most popular acts in the country.

But as said , popularity alone is not an indication of talent. Silly people will always be their to buy silly music , re-opening the already concluded argument about opinion and how its silly music dpending on what the general publics majority verdict gives in.

I feel like im falling into a parallel universe of argument paradoxes here .

[Matt10k]

Hmm... but you did say the majority decides what talent is. The majority like acts like leona so by your own definition she should be the most talented singer in the country!

...I define talent as my own opinion and the opinion of other people with similar musical tastes. For example, as you already stated you don't believe record sales are a good indication of talent which probably means you like less commercial music. So your opinion regarding who is talented and who is not would probably be more valid to me than a leona fans idea of talent.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Matt10k
Hmm... but you did say the majority decides what talent is. The majority like acts like leona so by your own definition she should be the most talented singer in the country!

A majority likes Leona , yes , and as I already said , she is talented , so theirs no argument their , but popularity and talent are two different things. Her record sales indicate she is TALENTED but a lot of people who buy her records are younger fans and people getting in to the fad of it all who cant honestly decide upon talent. Right. Now I have a Heacache.

In closing - I would like to see Leonas shelf life. One thing can be said about talent and sales , but will we remember acts like Leona and the like in the same guise as we remember acts like The Beatles , Zeppelin and The Stones today? I doubt it. Its a very different kind of music. Pop like Leona has a shelf life these days and once its gone, its never to be remembered.

[Matt10k]

I'll just say that the only person that ultimately decides who is talented and who isn't when I'm buying something is me and you won't catch me getting anything by leona!

But everyone has a different view of what talent is, it just so happens more agree that those brit awards winners are where the talent is than don't.

And yes, my head hurts too...

[KKBL]

how can anyone say Leonas not talented?currently she has best voice in the charts.not to mention her songwriting and beauty.Bleeding Love is an amazing song song the sales are there to prove it.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by *Cathal*
how can anyone say Leonas not talented?currently she has best voice in the charts.not to mention her songwriting and beauty.Bleeding Love is an amazing song song the sales are there to prove it.

Because someone might not think she is that talented. Sheesh, everyone is allowed their opinion on what talent is even if it would seem weird to a lot of people.

[xDramatick]

Originally posted by *Cathal*
how can anyone say Leonas not talented?currently she has best voice in the charts.not to mention her songwriting and beauty.Bleeding Love is an amazing song song the sales are there to prove it.

As far as I'm aware she didn't write many of her songs =|
I could be wrong since I don't own the album, but everywhere I've looked doesn't credit her for many of the written, only like.. 2 or 3 tracks =|

edit;; just checked online, she co-wrote two.

[Ruth]

Interesting discussion. I don't think talent is necessarily governed by what you do or don't like though. I mean, I admit that Leona has a fantastic voice, and I would class her as a talented singer, but I don't like her music.

And yes, I agree, people are allowed their own opinion. I love the Foo Fighters and Reverend and the Makers (for example), but a lot of people don't - it would be very boring if we all were the same.

[xDramatick]

I agree with Ruth there.
I prefer Reverend And The Makers song 'He Said He Loved Me' to 'Bleeding Love', but I'm not denying her of her talent.

[Stu]

Originally posted by *Cathal*
how can anyone say Leonas not talented?currently she has best voice in the charts.not to mention her songwriting and beauty.Bleeding Love is an amazing song song the sales are there to prove it.

Read the rest of the topic and try not to be so biased perhaps.

[GiRTh]

Good debate.

Talent is something that you know it when you see it. It cannot be easily defined and even though it is ultimately down to opinions, if someone was to say that Zinedine Zidane was NOT a talented footballer then just about everybody would agree that person didn't know what they were talking about. Sometimes it's clear for everybody to see.

Leona is very talented. Her vocal range is probably upward of four or five octaves. Thats talent. That cannot be coached. She is blessed with that level of ability. I'd agree that her songs are not what could be described as pushing back the frontiers of music, but she will definitely find her own place in the market. Also, with Clive Davis as part of her management team she may well become a global superstar.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Good debate.

Talent is something that you know it when you see it. It cannot be easily defined and even though it is ultimately down to opinions, if someone was to say that Zinedine Zidane was NOT a talented footballer then just about everybody would agree that person didn't know what they were talking about. Sometimes it's clear for everybody to see.

Leona is very talented. Her vocal range is probably upward of four or five octaves. Thats talent. That cannot be coached. She is blessed with that level of ability. I'd agree that her songs are not what could be described as pushing back the frontiers of music, but she will definitely find her own place in the market. Also, with Clive Davis as part of her management team she may well become a global superstar.

True, but I think music is more subjective than football (in my opinion anyway) and talent in music is more based around opinion and less around fact as it would be in football.

And just having a good voice isn’t good enough for me. She may be able to sing but I don’t like her style of singing at all or the songs themselves. So basically, I can understand why other people would like her, but it's just not my thing.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10kTrue, but I think music is more subjective than football (in my opinion anyway) and talent in music is more based around opinion and less around fact as it would be in football.

And just having a good voice isn’t good enough for me. She may be able to sing but I don’t like her style of singing at all or the songs themselves. So basically, I can understand why other people would like her, but it's just not my thing.

Talent is a subjective thing no matter what we're talking about but, you know it when you see it. However, in order to see it you have to know what you're looking for in the first is place. Her four or five octave range is the thing that sets aside from the rest. That's raw talent.

I dont like her music either but I have to concede she is able to do things with her voice that others will never be able to do. Thats talent.